[jackfrost]

Here is the million dollar question. When do you roll light, when should you wait. What is the minimum staffing for your first due piece to respond? 2nd due? If it is a reported fire, should you wait a little longer or leave quicker?


Thoughts.....

[seldenfd1094]

our policy is no less then 6 black hats unless chief says its ago

[enginevollie]

we roll with the first two that get there, everyone else to the scene.

[kye994]

In my opinion the minimum is:

Engine: (4) - Chauffeur, Officer, 2 "Class A" FF's in the back
3 FF's on the stretch (that includes the officer), generally it's with a pre-connect works just fine the majority of the work we see. Quick water on the fire from a properly placed handline is the number 1 firefighting tool.

Ladder: (4) - Chauffeur ("class A" w/their gear on board), Officer, 2 "Class A" FF's in the back.
Generally access to the fire building for aerial apparatus tends to be limited. I want my chauffeur to have his gear so he can go to work if there's no clear shot at the fire building.

And as an aside in case it comes up later: EMS/Ambulance calls: (2) Chauffeur & EMT/AEMT

Remember we are very fortunate here (L.I.). Many PAID urban fire departments run with 3 or 4 man engines and 2 or 3 man (if they're luck 4 max) on ladders. That's is including the OIC and chauffeur!!

[Pugs135]

kye, with 4 in back you should do fire to hydrant, then you can take full advantage or your manpower. if you pull a preconnect then you laid in, leaving a guy back at hydrant.

[kye994]

Originally Posted by Pugs135

kye, with 4 in back you should do fire to hydrant, then you can take full advantage or your manpower. if you pull a preconnect then you laid in, leaving a guy back at hydrant.

I said 2 in the back; 4 TOTAL on the rig. This is the minimum I think is reasonable to head out the door with.

One potential problem is some departments have an SOP that states an Engine must not pass up a hydrant on the way in so Fire to hydrant is discouraged. I think that is why so many of our fires in this area are fought with pre-connects because the popular evolution tends to be hydrant to fire.

[Commander]

It all depends on how your dept operates and your SOPs. If members respond to the scene or to headquarters or to a respective company.

If members respond to the scene or theres multiple apparatus responding from different companies then rolling light might not be a bad idea.

If you're out of one firehouse I would wait for 2-3 class A's in the back cab to roll. It's better to get there quicker than wait at the station for more ff's that may never show up.

[mack105]

Our 1st due has a commercial cab and rolls with 3. Our experience has been that its better to get on the road to the incident then wait for members that may never arrive. The rig was specially designed with 800 gallons of water, pre-connects, foam and tools...

With that, there's certain SOP's that have to be accomplished that differ from what other, "normal" engines do, depending on the type of call.

Usually the first drill each month focuses on this fast response:
For example, the 1st due engine will always go to the fire address, not the hydrant. ( we leave room for the ladder). While members are scotting up, the chauffer will stretch the preconnect. If it looks like "truck" work is more important, the chauffer may bring the tools or get the portable ladder ready while the FF's scott up...

In any case, Our 2nd due engine seats 10 and upon arrival, SOP calls for 2 FF's to immediately report to the 1st due to either assist the line, secure water supply, or assist in truck work...

[CRAZYOAKEY]

Originally Posted by Commander

It all depends on how your dept operates and your SOPs. If members respond to the scene or to headquarters or to a respective company.

If members respond to the scene or theres multiple apparatus responding from different companies then rolling light might not be a bad idea.

If you're out of one firehouse I would wait for 2-3 class A's in the back cab to roll. It's better to get there quicker than wait at the station for more ff's that may never show up.

you should stay in the barn if your company can't turn our more than 2-3 guys for a house fire.... thats sad.....

[kosmo27]

During the "day-time" you kinda know who is or isn't comming. If it sounds like it might be something I woud roll. In RVC the cops will get there in good time, If man-power is short I would have them help stretch a line.

JMO

[ASFC_144]

we roll our ladder 1st due most of the time and as long as we have 2 guys for the front jump and two guys for the hydrent we roll out.

[kye994]

Originally Posted by CRAZYOAKEY

you should stay in the barn if your company can't turn our more than 2-3 guys for a house fire.... thats sad.....

And let the house burn? Obviously it would be automatic mutual aid, but 2 or 3 guys geared up, on-scene cops or EAB tech - they ALWAYS will help; a guy buffing from another department.......I can't imagine 2 men on the line and a cast of characters out front not being able to do some work.

[ESU2422]

Originally Posted by kosmo27

During the "day-time" you kinda know who is or isn't comming. If it sounds like it might be something I woud roll. In RVC the cops will get there in good time, If man-power is short I would have them help stretch a line.

JMO

Gio would be on the nob, someone else stretching the line.

[Pugs135]

kye, i meant to say w/ 4 total you should consider fire to hydrant. if you roll w/ 2 in back and lay in you are leaving 1 at hydrant you are left w/ officer and 1 to stretch the line.

[Navy076996]

More isn't always better.

[whatsyourrush]

I dont understand why more departments don't allow the rigs to roll driver + shotgun and let everyone else who misses the rig to respond directly to scene. It def gets units on scene much quicker thus getting the operation started much quicker. It also saves the chief from having to sit in front of the house waiting a long time for a crew to show up and roll the rig.

[LADDER 3]

Originally Posted by whatsyourrush

I dont understand why more departments don't allow the rigs to roll driver + shotgun and let everyone else who misses the rig to respond directly to scene. It def gets units on scene much quicker thus getting the operation started much quicker. It also saves the chief from having to sit in front of the house waiting a long time for a crew to show up and roll the rig.

Then your going to have your members personal cars all over the place and no room for additional fire apparatus