For the most part, a VERY rare occurrence in Nassau, but with the amount of commercial, private, and recreational air traffic passing overhead, as well as helicopters, is this something we should address beforehand???
Now, it doesnt necessarily have to be a "downed" aircraft, how about an emergency landing? (i.e. chopper runs out of fuel and has to land in a schoolyard, etc).
Is anyone training/planning? (besides airport firefighters) If so, how are you going about it? (Classroom? Videos? On-Hand?)
One thing that we did in my department a few years back was reach out to PD Air Bureau and had them come in for a drill, they showed Helo and discussed what they are looking for when there is a Landing, IE Lights, lines, clearance etc. They also talked about if there is a crash of other planes helos & medivacs so if needed we had some knowledge to help and not get anyone hurt.
If you have an airport nearby reach out and see if you can set something up to look at planes, construction. Maybe even thru a plane owners group, people who deal with it ove to share their passion with others...
Many years back we had a downed small plane with two guys pinned in wreckage, basic tools were used, sawzall, prybars etc. not hurst tools.
speak with someone that handles fueling, they also hold info that would help us plan.
Last edited by fd by day, pd by nite : 09-17-2008 at 04:55 PM.
There have been several aircraft related incidents in Nassau County.
Don't always think helicopter or plane either.
On Sept 11, 1994 the Gulf Blimp "crashed" into a home in Farmingdale You can see a picture of it on Fred Kopf's website.
Massapequa had a plane crash into a house many years ago as well, the homeowners as well as the occupants of the plane all perished.
There was a plane that landed in Plainview along the trail that runs from Bethpage State Park up to the north.
There was also a crash of a "parachute plane" about 13 years ago in Old Westbury.........the thing is worn on your back and it's a big gas fan and you hang from a parachute.
Don't expect to rely on your hurst tools (especially spreaders). You're going to be dealing with thin aluminum sheet, extrusion, and ribs. Spreaders will, more than likely, rip the thin metal instead of spreading it.
Wire cutters/snips. Lots of them. The average joe has absolutely no idea how much wiring you will find in an aircraft. It'll be everywhere if you're dealing with a crash. Victims and FF's will get wrapped up in it.
Be proficient in flowing AFFF.
Watch out for on board oxygen generators/cylinders.
Piercing nozzles could be used to access fire in hard to reach places.
Last edited by Navy076996 : 09-17-2008 at 09:36 PM.
There have been several aircraft related incidents in Nassau County.
Don't always think helicopter or plane either.
On Sept 11, 1994 the Gulf Blimp "crashed" into a home in Farmingdale You can see a picture of it on Fred Kopf's website.
Massapequa had a plane crash into a house many years ago as well, the homeowners as well as the occupants of the plane all perished.
There was a plane that landed in Plainview along the trail that runs from Bethpage State Park up to the north.
There was also a crash of a "parachute plane" about 13 years ago in Old Westbury.........the thing is worn on your back and it's a big gas fan and you hang from a parachute.
and the biggest one i can remember...Avianca.
anyone remembering going there with a bus thinking you were gunna be treating people...then getting there realizing that it was a recovery thing....ill never forget that....responding in and seeing the tail of the plane sticking out from the ground...i dont remember much else exept going home felt like forever...and silent the whole way
About 15 years ago NHP had a drill with a small aircraft. (poss a 4 seater). Don't ask me where the chiefs got it. But they actually put it right in the middle of Hillside Ave and got a few cars from the junk yard and created an accident scene. I remember many of the members kids were used as victims in the plane and cars. They actually had firecome blow it out as a real call. ...Firecom on the air for NHP with a plane crash... It was at about 5 am on a sunday morning. Complete surprise drill. I dont know if we could get away with that anymore. But it was alot of fun.
I'm actually working on a podcast about this for Fire Engineering.
The absolute HARDEST ADJUSTMENT for structural firefighters to make is understanding the concept that we are NOT there to put the fire out per se. OUR GOAL IS TO CREATE AN ESCAPE PATH FOR FLEEING OCCUPANTS TO GET AWAY FROM THE FUSELAGE. This is the foundation of all ARFF training. You WILL NOT be entering and "making grabs" one the interior of a well involved aircraft. Those peope will not survive unless they can self evacuate.
As for the hydraulic tools, I've seen it in training go both ways. With the lightweight aluminum and composite materials, the tools have nothing to bite, they will simply just slide through and twist. With older aircraft, the material is so strong that you will be barely able to get any kind of hole initiated let alone try and "cut" or "spread" anything . This is why in military aircraft they actually have dedicated and marked places which actually indicate where to cut.
About 15 years ago NHP had a drill with a small aircraft. (poss a 4 seater). Don't ask me where the chiefs got it. But they actually put it right in the middle of Hillside Ave and got a few cars from the junk yard and created an accident scene. I remember many of the members kids were used as victims in the plane and cars. They actually had firecome blow it out as a real call. ...Firecom on the air for NHP with a plane crash... It was at about 5 am on a sunday morning. Complete surprise drill. I dont know if we could get away with that anymore. But it was alot of fun.
I remember that...I think I was 155C at the time. We got to sit in the bus for several hours "staging". Thanks for the memories...
[quote=MFD594;198054]For the most part, a VERY rare occurrence in Nassau, but with the amount of commercial, private, and recreational air traffic passing overhead, as well as helicopters, is this something we should address beforehand???
A serious and important topic, with some very thoughtful posts.
Not to minimize it in any way, but it did bring to mind for me an old memory about an exchange at a company meeting 2 plus decades ago between an opinion-u-ated member (we've all had them) and our company captain - opinion-u-ated member very vocally feeling our equipment and training was seriously deficient. Hope it's OK to share here.
The exchange ended like this:
Opinion-u-ated Member: " ...and so, what if a 747 comes down in town, could we handle it?"
Captain: "if a 747 crashes in town, I only need one thing"
Opinion-u-ated member: "yeah and what's that?"
Captain: " a token for the Throgs Neck Bridge"
Company membership: ...uncontrolled laughter..
Opinion-u-ated member moved soon thereafter, and that captain left us much too soon - just short of two decades ago.
But, even in this e-zpass era, every time I cross the Throgs Neck Bridge, I have to smile and remember...
For the most part, a VERY rare occurrence in Nassau, but with the amount of commercial, private, and recreational air traffic passing overhead, as well as helicopters, is this something we should address beforehand???
A serious and important topic, with some very thoughtful posts.
Not to minimize it in any way, but it did bring to mind for me an old memory about an exchange at a company meeting 2 plus decades ago between an opinion-u-ated member (we've all had them) and our company captain - opinion-u-ated member very vocally feeling our equipment and training was seriously deficient. Hope it's OK to share here.
The exchange ended like this:
Opinion-u-ated Member: " ...and so, what if a 747 comes down in town, could we handle it?"
Captain: "if a 747 crashes in town, I only need one thing"
Opinion-u-ated member: "yeah and what's that?"
Captain: " a token for the Throgs Neck Bridge"
Company membership: ...uncontrolled laughter..
Opinion-u-ated member moved soon thereafter, and that captain left us much too soon - just short of two decades ago.
But, even in this e-zpass era, every time I cross the Throgs Neck Bridge, I have to smile and remember...
Sorry for the loss even 2 decade neighborhood. Now I ham going to remember that and have a bigger smile in traffic when crossing the bridge.
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