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I'm curious to see what the rationale of having an ex-chief in charge in place of an acting chief is.
Maybe I just don't know what's up (being a military officer first and a FF second) but to me it'd be like taking a retired colonel and putting him in charge. Why not let the acting officers (Capt, Lt, etc) step up and learn through trial by fire? It's good training, and let the ex-chiefs just be the father figure and assist the junior IC.
I know that the ex-chiefs have more experience, but I also think it's important to let the up and coming officers learn what lies ahead.
Usually works out that one chief is always around when conventions come. If not, goes down chain of command w/ ex-chief(if possible) helping run the show.
Yes ...... we all know the fire square ..........................
Same as the fire triangle but the fourth side is the chief...... remove any side and the fire will go out........
But really some Depts. ex chiefs are always chiefs, where Officers are nothing more then record keepers, and in others its back to the other union and one of the boys again....I like the second option, why elect Officers if they cant run the show. Oh and by the way I have always wondered why its such a big deal if the Chiefs go away, what happens if you have all sitting Chiefs working day jobs 8-5pm. Do you need to make plans for day calls, and have an ex chief run the show? Lame...JMO
I think everyone is missing the point. I believed leaving a Captain or Ex-Chief in charge is not for fire ground operation I.C. but for the God-forbid L.O.D.D. of a ff, or a major accident with a fire apparatus, etc. Now you have someone who's acting chief that can handle the God-Forbidding happenings while the chiefs are out of town for a few days
I think everyone is missing the point. I believed leaving a Captain or Ex-Chief in charge is not for fire ground operation I.C. but for the God-forbid L.O.D.D. of a ff, or a major accident with a fire apparatus, etc. Now you have someone who's acting chief that can handle the God-Forbidding happenings while the chiefs are out of town for a few days
exchief means exchief out of ofice and done with a captan shud be able to run a major fire and if he needz help call forit
No matter what happens it all comes down to the signature at the bottom of the fire report or the next person in line according to your department/district policy. Mine states that the chain goes from the chiefs to the line officers then to the former chiefs and captains then to senior members. So, if something happens at an incident that is what is in writing. What happens if a LT were to ask an ex-chief to run a scene while he went inside? First, if that LT were new and the chief just out of office and the LT felt a little overwhelmed that would seem to be a good decision on his part. According to NIMS, a higher ranking person who comes upon a scene already in progress has three choices regarding command: take command himself, leave the current IC in place, or transfer command to a third party. However, the only thing in writing in my department is that no higher ranking person may ever transfer command to a lower ranking person. So if something happens, in come the lawyers. There is currently nothing in writing about the LT letting the ex-chief run the show or appointing an ex-chief when people are in town. With all of the potential lawsuits as well as federal state and local guidelines we should all probably go back and review our SOPs and policies and make them reflect actual practice and flexible enough to take into account extraordinary circumstances.
A lot of good points have been made and every Department has there own “flavor” of how things should be done.
The Chain of Command in my Department is something that has been in place for a very long time. In reviewing By Laws from the 1930’s, Ex Chiefs took command in the absence of a Line Chief.
One of the many rationales is actually very simple. Most Departments have a manning policy for rolling Apparatus, maybe its 3, 4, 6, Firefighters. You are an Engine Officer, you have a crew, you are responding. You are following what you were taught and doing a “size up” from the initial alert. You know your District, the address is in area of private dwellings or maybe it is a commercial area. You are trying to identify hydrant locations, what are the conditions that will dictate the first line you stretch. You contemplate the experience level of your crew. You are receiving additional information of numerous calls. You are ready to launch an attack as an Engine Officer. You arrive at the scene and Whammo…you are now not an Engine Officer but a Chief Officer……Your crew no longer has an Engine Officer…….who is going to now lead the troops? Who is going to account for the crew? We are Volunteers; accountability is complicated enough without adding another level of difficulty. Who ever is going to be the Chief should be aware of that prior to the alarm going off.
We have so much thrown at us as Fire Officers that part of the Pre Incident Planning should be who is going to run the show. As Volunteers it is not the simplest of tasks, but if you plan and prepare you will be ready to execute. As one or more of the posts have indicated the litigious world we live in has made everything we do become an activity of looking over our shoulder. More important though is making sure EVERYONE GOES HOME.
In our Department the By Laws are clear. The Ex Chiefs that perform the Acting Chief function are issued radios with a specific individual radio designation. As far as the education part, the Line Officers can “cut their teeth” as a Line Officer and work there way into the higher levels of responsibility. This works fairly well for us and keeps the focus on Command structure.
In a nut shell, it is important to have a plan before you need one. Don’t be picking numbers out of a hat or checking seniority on the lawn of the fire building to determine who is in charge. It is not a perfect world that we operate in, the fewer self inflicted obstacles the better.
In my dept the baby doesnt go unless 1 of the other 2 stays back. If a car is left behind a capt gets it in rotation. And x chief is a x chief not many of them are really after 9 yrs in office. they need a break. In all they can do 18 yrs in office from second Lt. to COD.
Baby chief staying back isnt necessarily the best idea either, they are just a glorified captain if you think about it, the convention was in june, 2 months of being a chief? that aint a lot of experience. Either way does it matter? in some situations yes in others no. to each their own.... stay safe and remember when the chiefs are away the boys will play! atleast we did..... twice!
If multiple M-L Chiefs are out of town for any sort of reason (personal or FD-related) the Captain of their fire company is asked to be acting-chief until they return. If the Captain is unavailable, the Chief can ask either an Ex-Chief or Ex-Captain to assume the role.
Re: Chiefs Out of District
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