Hey ranters just wondering what your opinion is on Live-in firehouses on LI. I know of PA and MD both having stations that offer dorm room style accommodations to its members in exchange for staffing apparatus. It seems that the fire departments are filled with 18-21 year olds but after that there starts to be a high turn over rate due to the high cost of living on the island. I know personally that I was forced to move south cause of it. Many of the stations in PA and MD started off offering live-in opportunities to college students as an alternative to on campus housing. With Hofstra, CW Post, Adelphi, NCC, Farmingdale and many others there are plenty of potential members. Beside some initial adjustment pains, I think that it could really open up a new avenue for membership growth. I know from personal experience that the live in programs down in MD produce highly dedicated members that spend a great deal of time at the stations, it creates a great deal of ownership over the station, and by forcing assigned duty crews, forces staffing in the daytime. Just an opinion, wondering what everyone thinks
Last edited by greggreg259 : 06-30-2007 at 10:19 PM.
A great asset and tool. I heard awhile back East Farmingdale was going to do it, for the SUNY students, and Port Washington was going to also. Its great for recruitment and retention. Hey, free board is free board.. am I wrong? Great camaraderie. Live with the guys, run with the guys, eat with the guys. A family. Could relieve the BS runs on the membership. Make small alarms in house or signal 8's. Were only some of the live ins go. And mandatory EMS shift nights.
i lived in a firehouse for three college semesters it was the best time i ever had in the fire service, and i actually learned a thing or two in school as well! Def. a benefit to the FD that hosts the program.
I think it is a GREAT idea,,, I'm in MD now and they do it, and there are many depts/companies that have no problem turning out 4-5 persons on every rig that rolls out the door,,, another tool which should be looked at the help LI save the fire service is the tuition reimbursement. In MD, an active vollies gets his State college tuition reimbursed every year with a letter from the chief.
It's a great idea and the departments that presently do it "off the record" have exceptional turn outs and response times. But with the mentality of most FD administrators and senior men in this region ... you'd see more people in favor of paid personal before they'd opt for live-in firehouses. "This is not a flop house ... no sleeping ... no cooking ... those guys hang out too late ...".
Small price to pay to get the rigs on the road and hold up our end of that whole fire protection contract thing.
It's a great idea and the departments that presently do it "off the record" have exceptional turn outs and response times. But with the mentality of most FD administrators and senior men in this region ... you'd see more people in favor of paid personal before they'd opt for live-in firehouses. "This is not a flop house ... no sleeping ... no cooking ... those guys hang out too late ...".
Small price to pay to get the rigs on the road and hold up our end of that whole fire protection contract thing.
Good point. Those with the "flop house" mentality are flops themselves.
Live in members will probably obey the rules more than anyone else. After all a 30 day suspension gets you kicked out of your house for 30 days.
I went down to MD, outside DC to check on it for my nephew, who wants to go to the College Park campus. We were welcomed very cordially, and all questions were answered.
Yes, no doubt horseplay will abound. But rules will be followed, and no doubt a quicker (much) turnout will abound. EVERYONE benefits, especially the community.. JMO
I disagree it helps with retention. I doubt the live ins will remain in the Department after graduation. You mention they could be a first due crew for alarms? How can you man an engine Co. with a crew of college age kids? If minumum age to volunteer is 18, who is your most experienced volunteer going to be from a dormed college age population ? A 21 - 22 y/o college senior.
I definitely think it is a good idea .... Just wanted to point out some difficulties I could forsee happening.
The span of the average volunteer, be it overall membership or optimal activity if 5 years. On average, someone joins and goes balls deep right off the bat, they burn out. Someone gets off to a slow start, they catch up to speed for a while but don't last all that long - it's over a five year period that you see the most out of them (overall). Someone is an average joe ... their optimal performance level is within a span of 5 years. Careers, side work, the car note, bills, loans, etc. - guys aren't always going to be the first one on the rig for every call, impossible. The few who can do this are a unique bunch. So within those 5 years you might be at your best, perhaps not the most experienced, but the most "into" it? A senior officer in the City once said that he'd rather have a handfull of two to three year guys who were "into" the job, than a guy with twenty years who was just waiting until his numbers were right, so he could retire. Don't always assume that the junior man isn't the best man for the job, especially when it comes to a "live-in firehouse" situation.
The salty senior man might know when it's time to get off the roof and when it's time to back the line out, how to draft, get foam ... major asset.
But 4-5 class "A" firemen, in the prime of their lives who are "into the job", zealous and can get the rig on the road in seconds; may be something that you'd want to consider as an asset as well.
Suprisingly people who have risen to levels of authority in the fire service in our region might discourage the practice of "live-in firehouses". Because guys might get the rigs on the road fast? And that's a problem? But those people in authority often refer to the firehouse (in a live-in sense) as a "flop house".
God forbid we turnout fast with a competent crew of interior firefighters. What an insane idea.
I disagree it helps with retention. I doubt the live ins will remain in the Department after graduation. You mention they could be a first due crew for alarms? How can you man an engine Co. with a crew of college age kids? If minumum age to volunteer is 18, who is your most experienced volunteer going to be from a dormed college age population ? A 21 - 22 y/o college senior.
I definitely think it is a good idea .... Just wanted to point out some difficulties I could forsee happening.
How can you man an engine with college aged kids??? I don't know aboput you bro but i do it everyday...As an officer i'm forced to drive the rig alot during the day and sorta play dual roles as the "kids" do thier job. I manned an Engine and Ladder for 1 1/2 with nothing but college aged kids in a department outside Syracuse NY, we were running nearly 2000 runs a year without a bus and nobody seems to mind if college aged kids were stretching the line up thier driveway at 3 in the morning...
Also- with the live ins. More training. There always in the firehouse, when they aren't busy, so they can be training. Theres simple rules to follow down in PG. It varys with company to company. But its basically 3-4 nights a week you have to be in house from 11p-7a. Excused for School and work issues, keep the house clean, keep the rigs in good shape.
Meal time creates a brother hood. All the guys eating chip in for the food, they take a rig out to get the food, grocery store, or a restaurant, stay there or come back and prepare it and eat as a family..
Just a post about the topic from a PG forum. That spoke well of the issue.
Quote:
any of the stations have members from all walks of life. Most of 'em pick an evening (or more) of the week, and sign up.
For the 9-to-5ers it's usually time in the evening. However, a some of the volunteers are career FF's in Federal, DC, or neighboring dept's, working a 24 hour shift and spending their off time at the volunteer house. Some of them catch a lot of flack for this....but it's hard to argue that not having them around wouldn't greatly impact daytime staffing.
Usually they handle station duties (trash, re-stock the bathrooms, etc.) Everybody (usually) helps out and treats the station as if it were their home (it is their home at least one night of the week). You might spend part of the time sitting around, but in most stations (PG and surrounding counties, that is) it's common for the bells to ring before your ass hits the chair.
Members also spend time drilling on the equipment during their shift (which helps them to get familiar & be known for doing what they do well).
It's a lot easier to get people to come around when your station runs in excess of 1000 calls/yr. I've seen rural depts try duty nights too....sometimes people just can't fit the time in, or get bored due to the lack of activity.
I disagree it helps with retention. I doubt the live ins will remain in the Department after graduation. You mention they could be a first due crew for alarms? How can you man an engine Co. with a crew of college age kids? If minumum age to volunteer is 18, who is your most experienced volunteer going to be from a dormed college age population ? A 21 - 22 y/o college senior.
I definitely think it is a good idea .... Just wanted to point out some difficulties I could forsee happening.
I can honestly say from experience the firehouse aint fun unless somewhere is there with you..... having this would only make others who arent doing anything wanna come down so that 4-5 guy crew might have just turned into an 8 man crew..... Training alot, maintaining the cleanliness in the firehouse, getting the rigs out all are pluses.........
The only thing I wouldnt like is missing my truck, but sometimes you gotta think about the community more than yourself........
What percentage would these people have to make. Let's be realistic, if the ages will range 18-22, the large majority would work, and sometimes just wanna go out for a night.
Hey the commitment is there you just have to expect it from your members. When I moved into my firehouse, we were running about 5000 calls a year, I lived in 7 nights a week while working a full-time job.(60 hours) We were required to staff three pieces every night, regardless. Regardless of holidays, or family commitments or dates, or classes, or work or whatever. If you got the call on your cell from the chief you dropped what you were doing and got back to the firehouse. We did building inspections, and housework and trained every night. We had the occasional older member, but alot of the other normal membership were paid men else where. When you live with a firetruck and respond day in and day out to your first due, you get damn good at your "job" Not all live-ins are college kids, but even college kids in thoes circumstances can do a hell of alot. We have had crews where noone was over 25, and thats running calls independantly. Chiefs dont show up to 80% of the calls we ran. It was your crew, and you did a professional job at it.
This is stuff you cant expect from the normal members. But if you do it right its what you can instill in a live-in contingent. Call it a professional training program or a college internship type thing, there are plenty of "young" FF out there looking for the challenge. I think it would be a huge boost to any department if managed properly, I dont know why it hasnt been tried already
Recently this August, I went down to take in an experience. Felt like a big family. Dinner was great, I didn't even have to clean up. It was funny to get to know the guys, and girls at 3am. And callls, they are fast. I had to run to get on the engine for a medic call...
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