[RESQ9065]

MARINE EMERGENCIES - When a 911 call is received in Nassau County for a "waterway emergency" the following occurs (prompted by the CAD system) -
The caller is transferred to NCPD Marine Bureau.
The USCG is notified.
The local police agency is notified.
FIRECOM is notified.
NCPD CB Operations Desk supervisor is notified.
If RMP and landbased ambulance are needed, they are contacted.
NCPD Aviation is notified.

CB Supervisor then verifies that this was done.

[Gunsnhoses]

Originally Posted by Thunderfoot

problem is there is too much of a human element involved. This district wants to do it this way, that district wants to do it that way, and this other district only wants to go if it's confirmed, and so on. Whatever directive is out there needs to be more well defined, as in everyone goes no questions asked. As it is now the proceedure reads that all agencies be "notified". This is where the interpretation gets screwy. Personally it's not a hard decision to make to at least notify a Chief and let him decide what he wants to do, but I have seen even that decision bounce around like a super ball before it happens. So eventually stuff will just get toned out, and after neumerous runs for beached whales, floating wood, and people seeing things people will start to go into roll over and reset mode just as they do now on the everyday signal 9 because 90 % of those are total nonsense too. Bottom line is in this case is notifications. Were any chiefs notified? If not then yep thats a big problem.

Thunderfoot, you let me down with this one..We go on all kinds of runs that tend to be something else, HOUSE FIRES for instance. How often are they chimneys, BBQ's or steam from a rain slickened roof once the sun comes out. We still tone those out right away right? Your right the odds are you sign on the air with an Signal 9 male having problems urinating at A. Holly Patterson, it probably is a male...having problems urinating. The same 2-3 dedicated guys will turn out. The rest of the department wasn't coming anyway. Sign on with a House Fire and oh well it turns out to be a BBQ, oh well thanks for the tease. I'm still coming next time you alert a house fire.
Regardless if a marine Emergency once was a whale, wood or an upside flag percieved as a distress sign they are few and far between for most departments. The members in waterfront departments went out and bought boats, suits and spent countless hours of there own time training to become divers, tenders, rescue swimmers and boat operators. If a call is recieved that an incident is ongoing in the sea, it should be alerted just as if it were on land, WITH NO QUESTIONS ASKED. And if it is not a true emergency thank god, and it was a good drill. If it turned out to be legit, the only way we'll help is if we get there early..Not by the firecom supervisor getting notified and holding onto it. Even a notification to a chief is a big delay...So now he goes and gets there and says "Yea we have a true job here..tone us out" and then the wheels start turning.
It amazes me in 2008 coming into 2009 a water emergency baffles County agencies as it does. I used to think it was me and now i realized after every water related thread there are gripes and complaints with the way the incident was handled. If you want to get notified for something and not tone it out start with the 30 or so chronic locations in my district whose alarms go off almost on a routine schedule. When in doubt TONE IT OUT! This post is My opinion only, Be Safe All...

[Thunderfoot]

Guns, re-read my post. I said clearly define the directive to say everyone goes, no questions asked. I also said as it is now at least notift a chief and start the ball rolling, as in I'm dead set against taking two minutes to ask a supervisor what to do when you know he'll say "notify a chief". What I was getting at is unfortunately those that are gung ho on this now will eventually start blowing things off unless it sounds good, just like as you point out the fire calls. How many times do you see the same guys at 3 AM for the nightly automoatic alarm, but a job at 3 AM brings out people you haven't seen like it's a High School reunion. Unfortunately thats another stort all together, but what I'm saying is if your agency covers the water and has the equipment, then it should go plain and simple.

[SaltyDog]

Originally Posted by Thunderfoot

How many times do you see the same guys at 3 AM for the nightly automoatic alarm, but a job at 3 AM brings out people you haven't seen like it's a High School reunion. ....but what I'm saying is if your agency covers the water and has the equipment, then it should go plain and simple.

Everyone showing up to a job (working fire) and having only 4 or 5 guys a rig for an automatic alarm at 3am - unfortunately - has and probably always will go on - we are not the only ones - PD gets a cronic burg alarm - same rmp goes with maybe an additional rmp for backup - get a burg in progress - you may have rmps from mult sectors, supervisor's, esu, bso, maybe k-9, maybe aviation, etc etc- the turn out is there -

the down side for all of us (pd, fd) is thinking its the same cronic bs alarm - and its anything but when you get there....

Yes -i agree - send the equipment if you have it.... real simple my friends - i'd rather have it there and not need it, than need it there and NOT have it...
unfortunately - thats the way this business goes....

[Port2StarboardFIRE]

[quote=SaltyDog;199518]

the down side for all of us (pd, fd) is thinking its the same cronic bs alarm - and its anything but when you get there....

You don't need to tell me Salty - 20 yrs ago (right before I got in) we were toned out for an automatic alarm - signal 8 - weve been to the address before....routine? - not at all,

not at all...

[BFD319]

2nd pct just put out a overturned boat with a man in the water 1/2 mile out notifying marine units. turned out the boat was on a sand bar and man in pulling boat in. but again no fd notified.

[gotum]

i dont understand how this alarm is any different than any other alarm that is received..... its not a curveball. im sorry to see that we arent the only department that doesnt get notified for these water jobs. Someone is going to die soon and the county will get sued, and then we will have a tombstone SOP but then it will be too late.

[1st Due Truck]

Something to add is the fact that perhaps CB wasnt exactly aware of which FD was supposed to respond. Also you have to think, I know in sea cliff we have a zodiac will it get out there yea, could we pull you out sure, do we have certified divers NO, i dont think glen cove, nor roslyn do iether. It seems that yes in the best case scenario we would be helping, but at the same time you have these other very highly trained agencies working together like they have 1000s of times it may just work out that FD gets in the way. Instead of worrying about why didnt we go or the system sucks why dont we train along side these other agencies regualarly so that not only do we have a better understanding of what they are doing and need us to do, but to have then think "hey we could really use those FD guys out here right now."

[Thunderfoot]

Originally Posted by 1st Due Truck

Something to add is the fact that perhaps CB wasnt exactly aware of which FD was supposed to respond.

CB doesn't need to know, they are supposed to notify firecom and let them make the decision on which FD gets notified. In more than one case several FD's have been notified for the same incident just so as nobody gets their panties in a bunch.

[Gunsnhoses]

Originally Posted by RESQ9065

MARINE EMERGENCIES - When a 911 call is received in Nassau County for a "waterway emergency" the following occurs (prompted by the CAD system) -
The caller is transferred to NCPD Marine Bureau.
The USCG is notified.
The local police agency is notified.
FIRECOM is notified.
NCPD CB Operations Desk supervisor is notified.
If RMP and landbased ambulance are needed, they are contacted.
NCPD Aviation is notified.

CB Supervisor then verifies that this was done.

Thank you ResQ...So it's 1420 hrs on Saturday Sept 27th i've been listening to the water job ongoing in the 4th pct for approx. 25 minutes. At what point did the FireCom Supervisor deem it NOT an FD response and what departments Chief was notified?

[Port2StarboardFIRE]

0736 hrs - clammer's body washed ashore approx 1000 yrds west of original location at per ncpd marine unit 20 (north shore unit - safe boat #)

[gotum]

1st due truck, NCPD only brings their divers out to recover, i have never seen them at a water emergency acting as first responders. you have a better chance of getting vollie divers there.

[Navy076996]

Originally Posted by 1st Due Truck

I know in sea cliff we have a zodiac will it get out there yea, could we pull you out sure, do we have certified divers NO, i dont think glen cove, nor roslyn do iether. It seems that yes in the best case scenario we would be helping, but at the same time you have these other very highly trained agencies working together like they have 1000s of times it may just work out that FD gets in the way.

95% of the time, divers are used for recovery. The gear is too bulky, takes too long to put on, and kills maneuverability/speed in the water. I'm slow as all hell with dive gear on. Simply put, by the time you get a diver in the water, your victim is probably done---especially in the winter.

Rescue swimmers are far more practical---and cheaper! Take a few of your department's best PT/swim studs, issue them some basic gear (mask, fins, snorkel, wetsuit, drysuit, inflatable vest) and keep some basic water rescue gear with your zodiac and/or on your rescue rig (a couple of cans, line, PFD's, etc). Done. You have a quickly deployable water rescue resource that can be employed from a boat or shore. For water rescue calls, I get out of the bus ready to go. All I have to do is zip my drysuit and get in the water.

[zeroone]

We've had this discussion before in regards to self initiating. You hear "something" over the scanner. Did you hear ALL the info? and are you SURE they are in your district? Best bet, if you hear something, get in touch with a chief who can then verify it with dispatch / FC. Nothing more embarrassing then to initiate your dept and not have ALL the correct information. Its not the member who looks like a horses ass, its the Chief!

My dept covers a small portion of water front and a marina. Often, we are requested to the marina for an aided case that took place out in the harbor or sound. Not to long ago, there was an accident out in the sound, Marine & Aviation were notified as well as several 14A's. I was tipped off of the situation well after units were on scene and treating the aided. I in turn, notified the chief of the dept who took a ride to investigate. On his arrival, he found, Marine units, aviation, 14A and a neighboring FD. For what ever reason, FD was never notified until the helo was already on the ground. A member of the neighboring dept was onscene and instead of calling firecom, he contacted his disp who sent their ambulance even though the location was clearly into our district (this in itself is a recurring issue). Then we learned that not only did the FD not get notified, a 14A was responding from Hempstead well over 15 min away!!

We all know there can and will be breakdowns in a system with multi dispatching agencies. All we can do is investigate when a breakdown occurs and hope it doesn't continue to occur which we have all learned is inevitable!