Mutual Aid when your 1st Due App. is OOS

Fire Escape · 06-25-2008, 09:21 AM

I have a question for you guys. Lets say you're first due ladder or engine is OOS. You have a 2nd due in service, but thats it for your district. A neighboring dept calls you for mutual aid to stand by, not to go to work. Would you send your only ladder or engine that is in service protecting your district to them to stand by? What are some policies out there in the county? I have heard mixed things on whether some departments would send them, based on whether they are going to work or standing by.

Signal 12 · 06-25-2008, 09:34 AM

Is there at all a certain degree of slefishness associated with only wanting to respond if your going to be used for fire duty? I mean if your 'standing-by' in a district bordering your own, you could just as easily cover alarms in your own district - in fact your response time might be just as good because your rig is already manned. Going in for fire duty takes you out of service entirely.

Does anyone look at it from the view point that a department really only wants to be bothered if they can go and get dirty and play? But they don't want to be bothered to go and stand by in the firehouse?

enginework1 · 06-25-2008, 09:39 AM

its the same if a dept only has one piece. take us in carle place we only have one ladder and it goes to any mutial aid it gets requested for stand by or the scene. if you need a ladder in your district mutial aid to fill your station or tell dispatch any alarms for a fire automatically mutial aid for a truck from xyz dept.

Pugs135 · 06-25-2008, 10:03 AM

The idea of mutual aid is to help your neighboring departments, and they help you. If they are requesting you, they need you now. You can backfill your own department if you don't believe your companies/crews left in town can handle other alarms on their own.

14str8 · 06-25-2008, 10:13 AM

Agreeing with Pugs - you are fulfilling a need/request of the OIC. They are not calling you to satisfy your need for work. The spirit of responding to assist should not come with expectations. Bottom line is that everyone goes home safe.

uselesskomish · 06-25-2008, 10:16 AM

If you neighbor's house is on fire, you lend him the garden hose and worry about the lawn later. Send them your rig, and call MA to backfill your house.

Bothworlds · 06-25-2008, 11:39 AM

I know it is a extream situation, but when 911 happend alot of volleys, and equipment left there departments and went to the city, some before they were called. nobody worried about covering there area then.

Send what is asked, and keep crews in quarters till they are back, and if you do not feel comfortable with what you have in quarters call a stand by from another department.
we have enough equipment in nassau to do that

aircrew423 · 06-25-2008, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothworlds

and if you do not feel comfortable with what you have in quarters call a stand by from another department.
we have enough equipment in nassau to do that

agreed there will always be someone there to help you out... we have wayy more then enough equipment to handle it

Signal 12 · 06-25-2008, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bothworlds

I know it is a extream situation, but when 911 happend alot of volleys, and equipment left there departments and went to the city, some before they were called. nobody worried about covering there area then.

Send what is asked, and keep crews in quarters till they are back, and if you do not feel comfortable with what you have in quarters call a stand by from another department.
we have enough equipment in nassau to do that

You might be reaching a little bit with this one.

zeroone · 06-25-2008, 04:51 PM

For years we had only 1 ladder, if it was requested to stand by or duty, it was sent. We now have 2.

For the commanders out there. Since there are more engines than trucks about the county, would you consider just calling for an engine to stand by instead of eng & lad? Some depts currently roll their aerial device 3rd or 4th, so whats the difference if you have an eng or 2 covering, then call for a ladder if needed? Just a thought.

LADDER 3 · 06-25-2008, 05:22 PM

I remember 6 or 7 years back, Hewlett had 2 signal 10's at the same time. When Hewlett called us for M/A, the Chief asked what does Hewlett need. They needed our whole dept to go to the second second sig 10. So we had to call for M/A to cover our town.
Like what everyone else said here, Nassau has a lot of rigs so there should be no problem to fill in empty firehouses..

underthedome · 06-25-2008, 08:36 PM

One thing to keep in mind is that if you are standing by in someone's quarters for whatever reason (fire or preset standby) you are NOT going to return to your own town if there is a run or a job. You have committed yourself to that town and those chiefs are assuming you are there to protect THEIR citizens/taxpayers. If you need to backfill your own station, fine. If your policy indicates you can't fulfill the request, fine. But you should NEVER take a standby assuming you can cover both towns unless the IC knows and approves because you are no longer a unit for your own town but are working now as a unit for the other town.

tl254truckie · 06-25-2008, 10:39 PM

a call for help is a call for help...PERIOD

classifying responses as "better" or "more serious" is dangerous

someone calls you for mutual aid...they need your help...in whatever capacity...you backfill or request your dispather cover you with another rig on your calls until you return...

if my dept gets called we backfill or put another dept as primary until we return (ex. if TL254 goes m/a we may have our neighbors toned out for a truck to respond on all phone alarms or generals until we return)...

and if need be...you could even mutual aid the mutual aid...for example...i'll use my dept...if we went to LB and had an eng from merrick s/b...LB needed another engine they could call the merrick engine (already staffed and close by) from our quarters and backfill our dept with another dept

bottom line...your neighbors call for help in ANY form you GO...unless you cant staff the rig or its OOS there really is no excuse...

oos · 06-26-2008, 11:22 AM

I for one hate `standbys´ I mean seriously, why would u want to get all riled up for sitting in someone elses department. Most likely you are not going to work, and you are not gonna get another call in that town. Something mysteriously happens to other calls, when a working fire is transmitted. Especially when you only have one apparatus of its kind to protect your primary protection area. The funnest thing is the ride.. Woo woo. Thanks but tell me im going to work then ill go, because you do your job then go, while the standby crews are still there bored out of their mind patrolling the apparatus floor, saying wow,

underthedome · 06-26-2008, 11:35 AM

I'm sure that no one decides not to go to a mutual aid standby just because they are not going to work. The issue is the protection of your own citizens/taxpayers and whatever policies your BOFC, FC, or Village have because that is all they are elected to serve.

SPIN_THE_WHEEL · 06-26-2008, 11:47 AM

Not for nothing, most dept.s now have multiple alarm procedures where the first step is to relocate to a firehouse, then the next would be to go to the scene. I remember a time depts. would kill to get into the 5th alarm in Long Beach to standby, just to be in the mix....but times change I guess. Speaking from my own company, they respond with the same enthusiasm and speed to get out quick if they are going to a fast request, to the scene to work or a standby. But times and attitudes change.

zeroone · 06-26-2008, 12:01 PM

Also, when responding to cover or stand by in your neighbors quarters - it should be done on a signal 12, no lights, no sirens. Where is the emergency? How are you going to justify if you get into or cause an accident?