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"The decision makers need to take care of things at home and not worry about being put on a do not call list."
It shouldn't be hard for you to find your superiors, so go and tell 'em what you think of them. Why do it out here? Its an important discussion, not doubt about it, and I'm not sure you're wrong on the issue (as some people have alluded to while trashing me for my original post, you have a thousand times more experience than I do and infinitely more firematic knowledge).
But judging a man/woman's class, dignity, professionalism and respect for a chain-of-command isn't firematic.
excuse me I have fat fingers. I should have elaborated. How often do the stick get put up? not very often. but when it does go up it's a great working platform. In regrads to ground ladders have you ever tried to put up a 35 foot ladder? It's a killer and connot be put up with any less then 4 guys. (my current dept removed it due to injuries and considering actually how often it is used) In my case that is the third of my current manpower. I once hurt my back putting up the 35 foot ladder and I avoid it if at all possible. By the way I do support HQ Capt decision. It is the safe one but though I see as a unpopular one. I think this type of incident has happend in the past several years ago.
35 footer = 135 lbs. ONE MUNICIAPL career firefighter is expected to do this. Obviously there are more stricter requirements for career firefighters as far as physical condition goes. Best example would be in the FDNY - if you gain too much weight on probabtion, your kept on light duty until your back down to regulation weight - then your taken off probation. So if ONE firefighter is expected to butt a 35 footer up against a building and raise it himself in a career department ... then I'll say that TWO volunteers should be able to do this task. That is not a knock or a dig or a comparision - it is an assumption based on the current physical requirements of most volunteer departments.
In regrads to ground ladders have you ever tried to put up a 35 foot ladder? It's a killer and connot be put up with any less then 4 guys. (my current dept removed it due to injuries and considering actually how often it is used) In my case that is the third of my current manpower. I once hurt my back putting up the 35 foot ladder and I avoid it if at all possible. By the way I do support HQ Capt decision. It is the safe one but though I see as a unpopular one. I think this type of incident has happend in the past several years ago.
thats alittle ridiculous throwing a 35' should be able to be done with one person, 2 ppl max, 4 ppl is way too many
I have obviously struck a nerve, or many! I think you need to look back to the post I originally responded to.
The poster was stating what would happen if department X turned down a request for mutual aid to department Y. They also posted that a refusal would have them removed from that departments mutual aid procedure.
Some how my opinion regarding that post has been interpreted as disrespect and disregard for the chain of command. It is amazing that one persons posts can generate so much scrutiny and other posters, who have obviously registered with multiple screen names to hide behind, receive free passes for their opinions.
We have some 30-day wonders posting like they have seen it all and have nothing left to learn.
Nobody's perfect. The Nassau fire service is not perfect. But defending questionable decisions with bizare logic and closed minds will never allow the fire service to catch up to what is expected of it in present times. "We,ve always done it that way" will no longer fly as justification.
This forum encourages members to share information, experience and knowledge. Unfortunately not everone here practices that philosophy.
At a daytime fire probably 10 years ago or so, the truck was shorthanded one senior guy and a probie with a few months threw every ladder on the truck with no problem.
Well, just so you can know where I was coming from, the reason I saw disrespect for a chain of command is (1) you decided to make your identity known to all; and (2) you made no bones about calling a decision of a superior absurd and unacceptable.
If you find that to be respectful of the chain of command, or think this is a great place to hash out what you think of a decision made by your superiors, then I'll say "lets agree to disagree".
Well, just so you can know where I was coming from, the reason I saw disrespect for a chain of command is (1) you decided to make your identity known to all; and (2) you made no bones about calling a decision of a superior absurd and unacceptable.
If you find that to be respectful of the chain of command, or think this is a great place to hash out what you think of a decision made by your superiors, then I'll say "lets agree to disagree".
Not only will we agree to disagree, I might also point out that if the majority of the posters on this board did the exact same thing with their paying jobs, they'd be fired.
I stand by my opinion posted as part of a discussion about an incident. The fact that people know my identity must make them jump to conclusions.
Re-read my posts, I questioned "decision makers" you interpret it different.
10,000 unread posts i love it......and now i come back and see the if one ladder is in town and the other out of service then it should be sent to stand by..............do we need to go back and start this all over again.... oh we are not we are gonna bash a paid captian who has made more hallways then most of us. we are gonna have guys or girls with 5 posts come and dictate policy by bashing members of this forum on topics they know nothing about with NO aerial device in their own district and we have others who if they sent their only aerial out of town to stand by would call another town to back fill them to stand by......so why not jump that other town and go 2 towns away. if mr/mrs taxpayer found out that their only child was killed in a fire b/c said apparatus was in the next town over while their child died as result of not having the equipment that was purchased for fire protection in their town wasnt there.....i thnk there would be biog issues is it that hard if YOU ARE IN POSITION OF POWER TO call for a stand by truck right away after yours was called either to the scene or to stand by so that THE TOWN YOU SWORE TO PROTECT gets the coverage they need and deserve. isnt that the chiefs responsibilty.....or maybe it is the captains responsibility if he is the only one left in town PAID OR NOT...... sorry if this is off topic 12 and you may delete but i guess some people cant follow the rant rules ......
it is amazing that people would slander and hate knowledge and experince this day and age when fire duty is down.......YOU CANNOT MAKE UP THE EXPERIENCE THAT SOME PEOPLE HAVE YOU SHOULD USE IT AS A LEARNING TOOL........
I most definitely respect and would like to continue to learn from things the good Captain says. However, even as a regular Class A FF without leadership responsibilities, I think I am capable of making an objective observation about respect for the chain-of-command. Note that I am not even critiquing the Captain's opinion on this issue.
I guess it boils down to this: I hear all the time (and agree somewhat) with the statement that "Probies should shut the F up unless spoken to" (I'm not a Probie, but just using it as an example). Since I'm a regular FF, if a Lietenant, Captain or Chief in my department made a decision I strongly disagreed with, I'd certainly express my concerns in a respectful manner and maybe they'd explain that their decision was based on X, Y and Z reasons. Maybe they'd even say "Gee whiz, you've got a point there, thanks Hoes Humper, duly noted."
I guess I've never really seen a subordinate FF -- even an officer -- identify themselves and then come on the Rant and just trash a superior in this fashion. I guess its usually done anonymously, if at all.
I think it really sets a bad example. If I think a bad decision was made by a Lietenant or Captain or Chief from my department, wouldn't it be in bad taste to publicly identify myself out here, and then call their decision "unacceptable"? Maybe "bad taste" isn't the best phrase, I'd probably be in some sort of hot water (I don't know, never seen it happen)!
Honestly, I don't know the Captain but it sounds like he/she knows a whole hell of a lot about how to be a great firefighter, and from a leadership perspective at that. But I -- as a regular FF who has to learn from and follow the example of others who know more than I do -- don't think this sets a great example.
It certainly appears that there are way to many people in the Nassau County fire service who would rather receive an "invite" to some one else's fire than provide primary fire protection to the taxpayers of their town/village. The practice of striping your home town for a photo op is a dangerous one. Is it acceptable to leave your family and neighbors unprotected while you standby somewhere else? The decision makers need to take care of things at home and not worry about being put on a do not call list.
No matter how many times I re-read this post I am unable to find anything disrespectful, any disregard for the chain of command or anything insubordinate. Oh yeah, or grounds to be fired.
I guess if you have an active imagination you can spin any conclusion you want.
It's ok for people to cut, paste, post and run. Good old "squid" is no where to be found. Either he did the cowardly thing, deleted his posts or he was booted. It's amazing how the tone of a thread changes when posts are deleted!
This thread was labled "discussion", my post was meant to provoke some thought by all who are members. No one was bashed or singled out. Yet some people have taken offense to it in their debuts here on the Rant. Isn't it amazing how many people signed up just to post on this thread.
I'll take the heat, if I hurt your feelings, too bad. The entire fire service has to take a long look at how we deliver to the taxpayer. We, the fire service are under the microscope and the taxpayers being our customers are demanding service and accountability. Yeah we pay taxes but in a community of 20,000 what percentage are we?
Let's take a look at the big picture and find a way where 71 departments can deliver a better product. Maybe I am out here all by myself, oh well, I'll continue to speak my mind. If I can get some people to listen great. If not, status quo, let's bury our heads in the sand and just bitch when the state steps in.
Maybe the two of you should just get together and meet on neutral territory to work this out rather than on here where anyone in the world can read the shots that are fired. Amazing things happen when people meet "face to face" to rationally discuss things. Likewise, sometimes it's very easy for the intention and meaning of any topic to be lost in written words.
The fire service is taking enough hits as it is without our own brothers/sisters taking repeated shots at each other. I don't know about anyone else....but after 29 years....I still love my job. It's hard to for the service to keep respect when shit like this hits the outside world.
Wow lots being spoken of here in this thread. Mutual Aid, who has what, how many are in service, should we send it?, should we not?, are we going for work?, or are we gonna babysit an apparatus floor? While others are speaking their minds, I might as well speak mine.
I feel that the Nassau County Fire Service is a complete ####-shop. 71 Departments and everyone has to have their own frequency. Many have to have their own dispatchers. The most retarded thing i have ever heard of. There is no unity, no order. It's a " I'll call XYZ department to my scene and ABC to cover, even if I have to skip over a town that border's me, because the Chief of XYZ and ABC are friends of mine. And i hope they brought their slew of radios, VHF-High, VHF-Low, UHF, 800, 700, sat comms... etc... BULLSHIT... I think the county should have control of who goes where on a mutual aid to ensure that proper coverage is kept at all times county-wide. They know who might still be on the road at run, who gets out without having to go to the 2nd or 3rd call. And they should know who has what units in or out of service at all times. I think that multiple departments should run in with each other on calls where geographically apparatus is closer, on a border type basis. (That helps the citizens of the county, our neighbors, our friends, our family get the help they need faster) The county also failed in keeping order with the radio frequencies. Everyone HAS to have their own TAC & Tone Out Frequencies. High Power and Fire-Ground repeaters? No Way. At a large scale incident it is almost impossible to get a message out to everyone at once, ( Like Collapse Imminent ALL UNITS EXIT THE BUILDING !!! ) unless at the scene, set up and in operation was an Interoperability interface to "blend" the frequencies and allow that transmission to go through to all 5 or 10 + departments operating at once, without having to have a chief or officer from each department at the command post to make sure that transmission went over their radio to their members. Everyone needs to work together on a battalion and county-wide level. We could go on forever pointing out flaws in the system, but there needs to be one system, whether that is a mutual-aid system, radio system or response system, and it needs to be followed by all. Strict guidelines should be set up by the county that everyone conforms to. Enough of the free - for - all. That's just my 2 cents. Maybe I should have started a new thread for this topic, maybe not. I am not a 1 year wonder ranting and raving, I am a member of the fire service with over 10 years and just pointing out some observations i have made over the years. You may agree with some or all of what I have said, you may disagree with all of it. Not looking to pick fights or get into an argument in a public forum. We can keep this here, move it to a new thread or if you like you can PM me. Thanks.
You're a parent - OK. You're out for the evening and your children are in the care of a baby sitter-just one. You feel comfortable that your children are safe and protected.
A couple of miles over is another babysitter you know. She's kinda busy, and asks if you can come over to watch her kids for a while. You say "sure, I'll get another baby sitter for the kids I'm watching" and off you go...
For 30 minutes, the children you were watching are left home alone, without any supervision, until another baby sitter gets there from another town.
There can be one of two outcomes......
When the other baby sitter finally gets there, everything is OK. The children are fine, albeit being left alone for a while OR it's the lead story in Newsday and on News 12, because something really bad happened.
Parents out there, I think you know what I mean. Others, I think you can figure it out. If it's broken, then fix it. There is no disrespect to question a flawed policy from a superior, especially if it's going to be you that gets handed the bag of s*** when something goes south.
Chief, Assistant Chief, Captain, Lieutenenant, and Fire Fighter - it matters not. "it's always been done that way", "one hundred years of tradition, unimpeded by progress", etc. doesn't cut it. Must we wait for something to go terribly wrong to change something? I think not. Early fire codes were basically "reactive", that is to say that when a major loss of life or loss of property fire occured, the code was changed so "it doesn't happen again".
New codes and procedures are for the most part proactive. We should never sit back and say it probably won't happen. Because when it does, we'll not only have our hand forced to make changes, but we'll also be dealing with the consequences of failing to see a deficiency and acting upon it prior to it coming back and biting us.
Just my two cents.
Stay safe and remember, we're here to serve and protect.
Re: Mineola Working Fire Discussion
