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We're discussing Potential Collapses


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Old 11-06-2008, 12:42 AM   #1
 
MFD594 on Potential Collapses - Nassau FD Rant
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: In the rear with the gear
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Default Potential Collapses              Go to Top

We've discussed this before, but for the benefit of the "newbies" and future officer candidates, I feel this topic needs to be "dragged out of the depths"...

Collapse. A word no one wants to hear (even when there isnt a fire involved)
The potential for serious or fatal injuries to "us" and "them" is greatly increased when a collapse is involved.

A lot of depts have become pro-active and now have their dispatcher advise them of "length of operation"- an excellent move that I think everyone should be utilizing...

...But, and even easier move & also "fool-proof" costs about 99 cents at any 99 cent store- an "egg" timer (or any hand-wind or battery operated timer you prefer). This simple tool will give the IC a very good idea of how long we've been operating.

Not only for the simple "maybe we should change our game plan", but for the "operating for 22 minutes with heavy fire still going- STRUCTURAL FAILURE IMMINENT"

Now, there are a million different theories on "how long you have", but, you should ALWAYS keep the "Collapse potential" in mind....

The "theories" (in my opinion) are a good guideline, but you never know what your facing.....

...EVERY house and/or building is different. Besides "pre-planning", you cant set one hard & fast rule for ANY structure.

...Dont think you have 15 mins of "fire load" on a heavy timber truss- Your 15 minutes may not match up to the 45 mins that the fire has been licking at it.

...And again, its not just "buildings"- private dwellings pose a large threat as well. Boilers and/or storage located under staircases, "lolly columns" removed by the homeowner for "more space", etc. All the factors should fit into your game plan.

As always, use your head, whether you the IC or just John Q Firefighter. If ya see something, say something. A 200 Gallon fishtank on the 2nd floor of a house weighs roughly 1600 lbs (add rocks, etc). A lot of private dwellings arent sutied to deal with 1600 lbs of fish tank, a 400 lb dresser, 300 lb bed, etc... now throw an 1 3/4" into the mix for 2 or 3 mins and you have the potential for the "express elevator".

Tips, tools, techniques- lets hear 'em!


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Old 11-06-2008, 12:58 AM   #2
 
Red&Blue76 on Potential Collapses - Nassau FD Rant
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Ex Elmont E-4 Captain now in Greener Pastures
Posts:530

Default Re: Potential Collapses              Go to Top

Excellent points that you brought out! Especially regarding the heavy loads placed on upper floors.


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Old 11-06-2008, 06:33 PM   #3
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: lake monticello va.
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Default Re: Potential Collapses              Go to Top

watc out for central air systems in the attics. either hanging from the roof rafters or sitting on the floor of the attic.


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Old 11-06-2008, 10:59 PM   #4
 
zeroone on Potential Collapses - Nassau FD Rant
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Default Re: Potential Collapses              Go to Top

My dept hosted a FASNY class last night on light weight construction materials. some of the tests that were done had a colapse around 9 minutes from the time the fire was started! The wood I-Beams that are being used as floor joists don't hold up to fire very well at all !!


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Old 11-07-2008, 01:54 AM   #5
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: NAS Pensacola, FL
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Default Re: Potential Collapses              Go to Top

When the roof-mounted A/C units start to look sad, it's about time to get out.


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