[FaceToTheFloor]

Okay, I think I found a new way to wind some of you up being that I have probably exhausted my options with the Signal 10 "issue" that I and some others have.


So.......onto the next battle.


Had an interesting conversation the other night in regard to Battalion "rules".
In particular the rule that certain Battalions will only call departments within their own regardless of the geography. I find it mind boggling in today's fire service that this approach is considered yet condoned. I will give you an example of how this asinine policy endangers us the responding personnel.
I will spare the "hosting" department the embarrassment by using X's and O's.

TRUE STORY

Department X from Battalion A responds to and finds a signal 10 in a two story PD. This incident lies within feet of Battalion B and 1/4 mile from a fire station of a department NOT in Battalion A. This station has a Chief present and he drives "literally" down the block to the incident.

The mutual aid policy has units from departments within Battalion A ONLY also responding to this fire AND from a marked distance. The chief from Battalion B informs the IC that he has a Truck Company and an Engine Company in quarters and they are available to respond. The IC refuses because of this policy.

Within moments there is a "Mayday" transmitted and members are in trouble. There is NO FAST even remotely close (from Battalion A although one from Battalion B is FEET AWAY yet NOT CONSIDERED AN OPTION), the interior firefighters (one in particular) are now in great danger.

By an act of Irish luck and a miracle of epic proportion these members escape. Injured and thankfully not dead. MINUTES later the Mutual Aided Battalion A only companies arrive and eventually the fire was put under control.

Maybe, this is where the phrase "A day late and a dollar short." was coined.

Maintaining this INSANE mindset WILL lead to firefighter injury or death and it MUST change. Neighboring departments regardless of Battalion, County, religion, and country of descent MUST adapt a response policy to include each other. The membership liability issues alone should have this put in place. To maintain lines of deliniation and response by Battalion is criminal and jeopardizes the responding personnel, not to mention the citizens you and I vow to protect.

I also don't understand how the responding membership in these departments are willing to play "Russian roulette" and not question the authoritarian rule that encourages, advocates and maintains this policy.

Somebody please enlighten me.

[ex4100]

Valid issue to be addressed. Until there is a structured hierarchy of the fire service[with the authority to plan, implement and enforce directives] this will, unfortunately, happen.

[FaceToTheFloor]

Nassau County Fire Commission "should" be the ones to create and enforce.
Residents AND Membership deserve and should demand it.

[ex4100]

"Should"....exactly.

[RES347CUE]

I Agree

[14str8]

Originally Posted by FaceToTheFloor

Nassau County Fire Commission "should" be the ones to create and enforce.
Residents AND Membership deserve and should demand it.

While I whole heartedly agree with you, how do you enforce something like this? What methods could be used to hold individual departments and battalions accountable?

[rollover]

I don't think anybody is "obligated" to follow a rule that says you can only obtain help from within the Battalion. In many instances neighboring departments from different battalions have developed close working relationships. It may be a matter of comfort with the department you are calling, or the piece of equipment you might need It is closer for Valley Stream to provide assistance to say Elmont than it is for Uniondale. I don't think Elmont has ever gone on mutual aid to Uniondale or Uniondale to Elmont. But Valley Stream (3rd) Malverne (4th) Floral Park and Stewart Manor (1st) all of the time.

[ESU2422]

As crazy as it is to utilize boundaries that exist by battalion there are still plenty of places that do not operate in that manner. The most obvious being Bethpage and Levittown. They have had a response policy where the districts adjoin that results in an initial response from BOTH departments. The people who set up that response policy saw a need, they got together and acted upon it. Sometimes you need to take a step back, take a deep breath and remember who we're supposed to be here for. As an officer you need to look out for your members but your first responsibility is to the public.

[grumpydispatcher]

Originally Posted by FaceToTheFloor

Nassau County Fire Commission "should" be the ones to create and enforce.
Residents AND Membership deserve and should demand it.

When someone is actually in charge of the fire service in this county, be sure to let us know.

But as usual, what makes sense and can save lives is not in a policy anywhere that can be enforced by a governing body.

[first in engine]

if you guys can you should look franklin square's new zone response. the chief took alot of time to set it up and did a great job at it. the district is broken up into 4 zones and mutual aide is sent according to where the fire is in the corisponding zone. the zones also give the guys a heads up to what part of town the call is in. not to mention that now they really shouldn't have to deal with the "why didn't you call me" questions any more and puts alot of other depts. in their plan. again great job done by the chiefs over there very progressive.

[MFDTruck2]

Perhaps I'm naive, but I would think that a good solution to this would be that Firecom should make the call of who goes on the MA. Example:

Lets say department policy is that on a Signal 10 the following are called
-FAST
-1 Truck and 1 Engine to scene
-1 Truck and 1 Engine to HQ
-2 Ambulances

So when the 10 is called, Firecom should call the departments which it deems is closest. Firecom also knows who is out on a run, who is OOS, who is out of district for some reason, etc. so they can make the best choice. If the chief needs more man power, he should just request a ladder to the scene, insead of "Call XFD's Ladder".

Unless of course the chief has a specific equipment request like "Call Mineola for the air trailer."

Then there are those departments who self dispatch. If I'm not mistaken, they notify Firecom of the need for MA, they don't call it themselves (Correct me if I am in fact mistaken). So that takes the battalion allegience and the department friendships out of the equation.

[first in engine]

i believe most departments or at least i hope most departments have mutual aide plans for firecom to follow. if your ever in a jam you can just start asking them for units and they do what there paid to do dispatch. they know whats going on in the county and they can then give you what you need. it takes one more thing off of your hands and im sure they will not mind doing it. think about it if you need 10 buses for an mci do you want to think of which 10 depts. are closest or even available for that matter

[former truckie]

the closest dept or unit requested should go period. no if ands or butts. the days of calling you buddies dept are over its sad to say but it will take somthing happening in order for someone to make changes.

[Goin2work]

When someone dies, these morons who make up off the wall m/a policies will wake the #### up and stop with they're baby bullshit and volitics...

[tl254truckie]

this has been and will be an ongoing issue...

remember though...the chiefs that were ELECTED are doin this...and WE, the membership, in every department are the ones that put them there...

many depts go by geography...that being said some dont as you pointed out...its a silly policy and the membership of those departments should make it known to their chiefs office...and next time someone wants your vote for chief...make sure they represent your ideas...and have the safety of their members in mind...

[4102]

Originally Posted by MFDTruck2

Perhaps I'm naive, but I would think that a good solution to this would be that Firecom should make the call of who goes on the MA. Example:

Lets say department policy is that on a Signal 10 the following are called
-FAST
-1 Truck and 1 Engine to scene
-1 Truck and 1 Engine to HQ
-2 Ambulances

So when the 10 is called, Firecom should call the departments which it deems is closest. Firecom also knows who is out on a run, who is OOS, who is out of district for some reason, etc. so they can make the best choice. If the chief needs more man power, he should just request a ladder to the scene, insead of "Call XFD's Ladder".

Unless of course the chief has a specific equipment request like "Call Mineola for the air trailer."

Then there are those departments who self dispatch. If I'm not mistaken, they notify Firecom of the need for MA, they don't call it themselves (Correct me if I am in fact mistaken). So that takes the battalion allegience and the department friendships out of the equation.

the problem with firecom is that they are operators and not dispatchers. but that is just the start of the problem. firecom should all be DISPATCHERS NOT OPERATORS!
the dispatcher's should have power and discretion of what units to call. the i/c should only have to say give me and engine or truck or tower and dispatch should come back and tell him your next engine is engine xyz and tower or truck is abc. take some of the presser off the i/c so he could keep his thought on the task at hand.
but that is just me

[You Dont Know About That?]

how about one better...

Suffolk to Nassau and vice versa.

Syosset and OB to Cold Spring Harbor....