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OOS, i have to disagree with your comments. My 3 line officers are all in their 20's and have my respect as well as the respect of the other probies, young or not.
OOS, i have to disagree with your comments. My 3 line officers are all in their 20's and have my respect as well as the respect of the other probies, young or not.
ok. that may be the case in yours and the majority of departments, but i'm giving an example of what i've seen first handed, and (maybe should'nt have) but generalized it as if every department has the same problem.
Most people who feel the need to give the business to the brand new members of the fire service were usually the ones who either got it real bad when they were new, or are fed up with what they see now a days and lack the tact/people skills to mold a new member.
Most of us never really experienced a legit probabtion and most of us have no idea what the senior men experienced, nor will we ever.
13 years in the fire service, 5 of them being with a career department I've seen what probation is and I've also seen it's good points and bad point. I've seen people take junior men under their wing and do the right thing and I've seen plenty of other people shoot their mouths off and boss probies around, when they themselves belonged right beside them doing the bull work as well.
Bottom line it is 2008. Our fire service is going to be something of the past if don't accept the realities of what is going on in this County and the crisis that we're presently in. Crisis - yeah ... manpower, lack of experience, new laws, new mandates, lack of training and lack of time.
There is is a way to get people to do things and way to show people how to do things as well. What we do is on a volunteer basis. There is a fine line between the fraternal hazing that should go on in our brotherhood and what is inappropriate behavior when someone is volunteering thier time to their community.
Knowing that line is very important and less and less people now a days are aware of it.
Most of us never really experienced a legit probabtion and most of us have no idea what the senior men experienced
There is is a way to get people to do things and way to show people how to do things as well. What we do is on a volunteer basis. There is a fine line between the fraternal hazing that should go on in our brotherhood and what is inappropriate behavior when someone is volunteering thier time to their community.
two very good points. with me having 5 years exp. some would still consider that being a probie, but i know for a fact my probation experienced was lightly tested and i got away with a lot of things that "real" probies would'nt even think about. but i'm just speaking for myself here. on the flipside i've seen guys get put through the ringer. something i would say is going to far. (ex. public scolding ifo. civilians, embarrassment in front of siblings or life partners. things people put up with in a career situation cannot be compared to volunteer, because people would quit and not think twice.
I don't have a good set of things that would make anyone a good probie.
A probie might one day become a Senior Man. Here is something some guy named Signal 12 posted awhile back about a good senior man.
"Ya know what a senior man is?
The guy who makes the proby fill out the BI paperwork and then looks it over and puts his own signature on it, in case there is a problem, the johnny won't get jammed up.
The guy who asks the proby if he checked all the equipment and then looks the rig over for any problems and points out anything the proby missed, (with some ball breaking thrown in)
The guy who jumps into the sink and lets the proby push him out.
The guy who breaks the proby's balls all day and then smacks him on the back as he leaves and says, "see ya next time"
The guy who tells the boss, "I told him to try that" when the proby ---- up. And then shows him how bad he ---- up.
The guy who is fixing or adjusting the complex equipment during committee work, not hiding or barking.
The guy who actually teaches you something, during your assistant HW, besides, "you got it".
This guy can have 5, 10, 20 years. But if he produces good firefighters, he's a good senior man."
I don't have a good set of things that would make anyone a good probie.
A probie might one day become a Senior Man. Here is something some guy named Signal 12 posted awhile back about a good senior man.
"Ya know what a senior man is?
The guy who makes the proby fill out the BI paperwork and then looks it over and puts his own signature on it, in case there is a problem, the johnny won't get jammed up.
The guy who asks the proby if he checked all the equipment and then looks the rig over for any problems and points out anything the proby missed, (with some ball breaking thrown in)
The guy who jumps into the sink and lets the proby push him out.
The guy who breaks the proby's balls all day and then smacks him on the back as he leaves and says, "see ya next time"
The guy who tells the boss, "I told him to try that" when the proby ---- up. And then shows him how bad he ---- up.
The guy who is fixing or adjusting the complex equipment during committee work, not hiding or barking.
The guy who actually teaches you something, during your assistant HW, besides, "you got it".
This guy can have 5, 10, 20 years. But if he produces good firefighters, he's a good senior man."
Being that I've only been in the fire service for a few weeks as a probie (and 4 years as a junior/junior captain), I'm not going to say that I know much of anything about anything. However, I will say that the person described above is definitely the kind of person I would love to have as a mentor and teacher.
Hook 262 just always want to learn, dont be afraid to ask questions, Know your rig, and tools and your turn out to be good fireman. Look to the ACTIVE Senior men.
The good senior man is the kind of man (or woman) who takes the probie under his wing and teaches him the right way, instead of just screaming at him when he messes up.
Re: Probies and their place
