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where do you draw the line between inquisitive and ignorant, opinionated and out of place, how does one say "shut up" without saying "shut up" and discouraging new people from coming around...how do you explain that it is their place to observe and shut their trap rather than question and even publicly disagree with you...and most importantly when is it time to say...maybe this department isn't right for you?
questions are good in moderation and should only be presented if there is a safety concern or if after close observation and an attempt at understanding, something still needs to be clarified. I would hate to say "don't ask questions" but if asking volumes of questions in front of home owners or patients makes us look like we don't know whats going on and don't train our people then someone needs to shut up.
I think part of the problem is the fact that some senior guys shy away from the probies. When I was a probie, I kept my mouth shut or else the bigger senior guys woulda buried me, but, we were also very busy back then, we only had to take mask 1 & 2 at the academy and get certified by an instructor in the dept and we were pack qualified, we were so busy back then if we didnt catch atleast 3 or 4 jobs a month we were catching car fires or dumpsters. Nowadays, the kids are put through so many classes that arent necessary for a probie, theyre overwhelmed. Its our ( senior ) guys job to let the probies know what theyre in for, the listening, learning and the ball breaking and let the probie know that when theyre balls are broken, its done in jest. Obviously, some arent gonna handle it as well as others, but, theyll learn to deal with it for the year or theyre life will be miserable. We need to explain to them what can be asked at a scene and what should be asked back at the house.
I meant that its ok to ask questions, in an inquisitive manner, NOT as in a way to question the senior man, also we praise in public and discipline in private.
i believe in less the question is related to the job on hand it can wait till after we get back to the barn. any other questions get ignored while on calls
It's also important to know someone's experience and to take into account that there are situations where the probie may actually know what he is talking about, especially with older men joining. I'm going to take the work of a probie who has been an electrician for 20 years over an officer who took a class at the fire academy any day. Even if there is a young kid who is an apprentice in the trades or works any kind of job that involves an incident, I would ask for his input. The important word is respect and it works both ways. If probies don't respect their officers then there is a big problem. But if officers and senior men treat probies like crap just because they can, then, if they stay around, they are going to treat everyone and everything the same way. Discipline is one thing, being treated like garbage because of a power trip is completely different. This is especially true of the way the three-year wonders treat the new members. If one of them has a problem with a probie they should address it to the officers not start screaming at the new guy because he has one more year.
I think probies that think they are excused from certain duties because they've been around but not actually been a member is a problem...When i first joined i spoke when spoken to and kept my mouth closed except when it came to a question about the rigs, now you have probies with less than a year that dont care about the apparatus and also walk around like there a 20 year member
I think it is the overall attitude of "today's probie" when compared to the days of yester-year.
When it was a common practice of eyes open mouths shut.. now I have probies that shoot off at the mouth to officers with less testicular fortitude than normal.. and they wonder why they are not respected..
I agree with Grumpy that the probie should have the fear of God struck within him/her in order to appreciate the rites of passage..
As another mentioned.. praise in public and criticize in private.. absolutely a good philosophy, however a good ribbing every now and then in front of the other probies might help put them back in line..
Its time that people stop trying to be everyone's friend and start being officers. If you're liked by everyone, you're not doing your job.
"underthedome" gives officers great advice by utilizing manpower based on skills when called for. Having taught probies for quite some time I always ask "what do you do for a living and what skills do you have that can help us?" Knowing I have a master electrician with me makes me a manager the moment I arrive at an electrical emergency. He is the professional.
I have a better chance of getting whacked by 200 amp service than he does therefore what he says.......goes. Upon completion of mitigating the problem he then becomes instructor for an on scene drill so that others can learn from his experience. BETTER THEN ANY BOOK.
Probies learn the fire business at many levels. FSA, Department, Company, etc. I have found out the more I give them TO DO and not to listen to, the more they learn. I have burned a number of bridges(Surprise Surprise) by having the Chief remove all personnel from a fire building immediately following knock down and turn it into a hands on learning session for inexperienced members. You can give each room that needs to be opened up two bodies with hooks and halligans to learn how to do so. Put one on the nozzle with an experienced member to back him up for extinguishment. I stay in the hallway in case the shyte hits the fan to assist in their safe escape. It works great and they (probies) are more than willing to get dirty for you. If they don't....well that is the time to have "that" conversation with them about being an "inside" guy or an "outside" guy or "fresh air firefighter" as I call them.
To be honest from allot of time dealing with different levels of experience and training, The probie has rarely ever been the problem. It is the 2-4 year guy who thinks he has it down and that because the calendar year has changed so has his experience. This can be a very deadly on the fireground.
If he joined a truck company and has 2-4 years in.... he is by no means a "truckie" yet.
If he joined "the heavy rescue"....he is NOT a "rescue man" yet. He just happens to be assigned there.
Are they on their way to being good "go to" firefighters?
Maybe yes......and maybe they just happened to walk in the firehouse and a Truck or HR officer was there when they wanted to sign up. You are only as good as the last fire you went to. The rest relies upon your ability to recall the fires prior to that, the scools prior to that and knowing that if the variables change the fire can win at any moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NozzleNose I meant that its ok to ask questions, in an inquisitive manner, NOT as in a way to question the senior man, also we praise in public and discipline in private.
i totally agree with that. honesty... what grumpy said.. is not always a way to solve something. being that i am a kid and new here at the rant... grumpy has made fun of almost all of what i have posted
Probies and their place
