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Ok, i dont know if this is the right place to post this, but any way....
Does anyone else feel that signal 10's are getting called to quickly latley? I mean not to pick on any dept in particular but look at one deparment's last "10" wound up being a bug bomb. another depts last "10" was a quick attic fire. And the countless other one room fires called 10s all over nassau.
I know in my dept,and others, its called a working fire, than when the structure is fully involved,or maybe one whole floor, than the 10 is transmitted. Is this how most of your depts operate? or do they just go right to a 10 and not use working fire? I dont mean to bitch, but im just curious as to how other depts operate.
Last edited by tl254truckie : 08-10-2008 at 03:25 PM.
Reason: individual depts names used
I don't think its a matter of how other departments operate but who is the OIC of the first unit arriving on scene and that persons size up. I know in today's world there are many factors involved including the conditions on arrival, time of day, response time of the first unit to the scene of the incident and personnel on board to handle the situation at hand, additional resources needed to control the incident. Most departments have built in mutual procedures on the transmission of a signal 10. All these factors tend to dictate on why or why not a signal 10 is transmitted. Then there is always the person with the "BIG EYE" when the OIC does not do a proper size up and gets carried away with themselves... JMO
Last edited by Hirch Goodman : 08-10-2008 at 02:11 PM.
The signal 10 is traditionally used for "working fires"...that being said what constitutes that?...there have been numerous discussions on here and I'm sure in many firehouses about this...is there a difference for a signal 10 between an indoor contents fire and a fire impinging on the structure?...an overwhelming majority of departments in nassau use sig 10 to alert of a confirmed working fire...several depts use other classifications like "all hands" or just plain "working fire"...as long as those that need to know KNOW what it means...it sucks for the buffs but OICs arent here to satisfy them...also many departments use the "signal 10" to get additional resources coming ie. FAST...addl truck/engine/amb com post utilities...whatever their plan calls for...
then again...maybe they just f**ked up ...jumped the gun and called it too soon...these things happen...
The signal 10 is traditionally used for "working fires"...that being said what constitutes that?...there have been numerous discussions on here and I'm sure in many firehouses about this...is there a difference for a signal 10 between an indoor contents fire and a fire impinging on the structure?...an overwhelming majority of departments in nassau use sig 10 to alert of a confirmed working fire...several depts use other classifications like "all hands" or just plain "working fire"...as long as those that need to know KNOW what it means...it sucks for the buffs but OICs arent here to satisfy them...also many departments use the "signal 10" to get additional resources coming ie. FAST...addl truck/engine/amb com post utilities...whatever their plan calls for...
then again...maybe they just f**ked up ...jumped the gun and called it too soon...these things happen...
I agree 100%. With that said, it's better to have too much then too little. When conditions go downhill, that's not the time to be scrambling for 3-7 minutes depending on distance for M/A to arrive and be ready to operate.
I think it's wrong to Monday morning quarterback an IC's decision to transmit a Signal 10 or working fire. Numerous factors including, time of day, manpower availabilty, apparatus out of service and street conditions to name a few may be unknown to those listening. Being proactive and getting additional resources on the road should never be considered the wrong thing. What's wrong with slowing everyone down when conditions change in the IC's favor. A realistic expectation for mutual aid resourses to arrive and be ready for an assignment is more like 10-15 minutes. It gets lonely in front of the fire building when you turn around looking for more help and no one is there. It will feel like an eternity waiting for your additional resources. An IC should not be looking two or three steps ahead but preparing for what he is going to do when steps 2 or 3 don't work out as planned.
A quick signal 10 may get that guy who was ready to leave for work and on the fence but was willing to give up a days pay when the working fire was transmitted.
As far as the terminology or standardization of signals goes, there are county standard codes in place but too many departments have adopted variations or implemented their own signals. If there was a standardization between all 71 departments it would be easier to standardize and understand requests for additional resources. Yeah, plain lanuage is a great idea but who is going to make sure everyone makes the transition?
I agree with what you all are saying. Its better to have additional units at scene and not need them than not have them and need them.
Maybe we can get some kind of list together here as to how everyones dept operates in refrence to this. Whos dept uses working fire? Whos dept just uses sig 10 for every fire regardless of size? Who uses "all hands"? And what additional units or mutual aid units does it bring when these signals and terms are transmitted?
Im just trying to get a better understanding as to how other depts use signal 10 or other terms and signals to classify fires. With us its usually a 10 when its fully involved. A one room fire would be a working fire, that would be 2 stations and rescue to respond, with the third station on stand by until needed or maybe designated as FAST team. With a 10 it would be an automatic general and the IC would call for the mutual aid units he/she needed.
A one room fire would be a working fire, that would be 2 stations and rescue to respond, with the third station on stand by until needed or maybe designated as FAST team. With a 10 it would be an automatic general and the IC would call for the mutual aid units he/she needed.
By us, they dont assign any one company to go. everyone goes. There is no reason to have a company be not assigned that could potentially have a full crew, while you are waiting for the assigned company to gather members. That is valuable time wasted. We are 4 companies, but all 1 department. there is no reason some guys should "lay back". The idea is to get as much help in as fast a time.
As for dropping a ten rather quickly, In the recent days, with the humidity the way it is, a guy can suck a bottle and get exhausted much quicker then when it is no humidity. Having to drop the ten to get the guys that are on the fence to show up is not a bad call.
lol, sorry zeroone. I had i feeling starting this thread would go this way. Kinda wanted to see how other depts use signal 10's,what justifys a 10, and what their response is for them. But it went south.
I really feel that it's up to the OIC when or not when to call the signal 10. Better to get the resources coming quick. You can always send them home if / when not needed
What may look like nothing at the beginning can really turn to shit quick
better to have and not need than need and not have
Like i had previously posted. I feel its more of a response, similar to FDNY. A 10-75 basically gets you a number of units and command personnel. It can be used, and mostly for fires, however it also used when the situation warrants more personnel.
The way my depts sig 10 procedure is set up, its gets me a re-alert, m/a eng / truck, FAST, 14A, 14, 27 E & G. If there is something in that procedure I may not require, i can turn them around, cancel or send the M/A to cover. We do not have a 2nd alarm procedure, so if a unit arrives and says give me a second alarm, thats all they'll get, a re-alert, radios & audibles. Now, if i transmit a 3rd, 4th or 5th alarm, it would be similar to Roslyn's procedure, gets me units to quarters and moves up the units already there. It gives you less to think about when you are trying to manage the incident. Now, take Westbury, they don't give a '10' they give a working fire, just like Roslyn. They have a procedure for the 'working fire'. I could do the same and not say signal '10' and call it a working fire, its just a term or signal, its what happens when it is transmitted that matters. Years ago, you transmitted a '10' and that was it, chiefs are becoming more and more proactive, in my opinion.
Why does it matter to you what other Depts do. Worry about what happens in your town. If they need you they'll let you know and hopefully fill you in on what your going to so you can decide if you want to go.
Why does it matter to you what other Depts do. Worry about what happens in your town. If they need you they'll let you know and hopefully fill you in on what your going to so you can decide if you want to go.
Agree. If your not there when they "transmitted the 10" and are hearing things over the radio such as a quick 12 and then a 13, im sure it wasnt much but you werent there and you were not the OIC. Maybe they did call a 10 to quickly. As for the "bug bomb" in Hicksville. Im sure i would have called a 10 for that, seening what looks like smoke coming from a building. worry about your own deparment.
...EVERY dept (including FDNY) has transmitted "working fire" for stuff that ends up being a BBQ or whatever.
..We're firefighters, we are trained to react.
The terms "BS 10", and "35" (10-12-13) should really only be used by the person that transmitted the 10- you dont know what they saw when they pulled up or what the situation was (unless you were the person or were with them)
If its gets the ball rolling or turns out more members, dump it!
I've never heard a dept say "oh they called us mutual aide but gave us a quick 13, that sucks!". A lot of people on here complain they dont get called, and when they do, they complain.
There have been plenty of "BS 10's" that could've gotten a lot worse if not for a quick knockdown and/or "enhanced" manpower or mutual aide.
Sig 10's
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