[Thunderfoot]

State panel recommends changes to fire system
BY ELIZABETH MOORE

elizabeth.moore@newsday.com

May 2, 2008

ALBANY - For the first time, a state commission has recommended taking a hard look at New York's volunteer-led system of fire protection and requiring counties to at least consider assuming more control of their local fire services.

It's such a touchy subject that five of the 15 members of the Commission on Local Government Efficiency - including Long Island's two members - voted against even studying the idea.

But commissioners said they'd heard too many "horror stories" on Long Island and statewide about multiplying Taj Mahal fire stations stuffed with brand new equipment, at a time when volunteer numbers are rapidly dropping.

"Our taxes are far too high, and we can't continue to embrace the status quo and expect things to get any better," said Assemb. Sam Hoyt (D-Buffalo), chairman of the local governments committee and a member of the commission, which presented its recommendations to Gov. David A. Paterson on Wednesday. "I guess they [volunteers] are a powerful constituency, but at some point we have got to learn to say no."

The commission, which drew in part on findings from Newsday's 2005 Fire Alarm series, emphasized that voters would have to approve, through referendum, any move to give their county broader power to coordinate fire services and review equipment and coverage decisions.

Its report proposed a range of other changes to the fire system:

Requiring all E-911 calls and police, fire and emergency medical dispatch to be handled by counties;

Empowering towns to create their own fire departments;

Holding all fire district elections on Election Day or on the same day in spring, run by the county board of elections, and notifying voters by mail of their fire polling place;

Making it easier to dissolve fire districts - a measure inspired by the predicament of angry homeowners in the high-tax Gordon Heights Fire District;

Requiring a detailed study of the state's fragmented fire system, and more reporting on fire spending and budgets;

Devising new incentives tailored to younger volunteers.

Fire officials were unenthusiastic about most of the proposals. Bill Young, counsel for the state fire districts association, said putting towns or counties in charge of fire protection would be "extremely difficult" both logistically and because volunteers sign up only to serve their hometowns. Kirby Hannan, spokesman for the state firemen's association representing the volunteers, agreed. He argued for a more tailored solution to Gordon Heights' budget problems but favored the idea of county dispatch and new incentives.

Young also argued that reforms passed by the state in the wake of Newsday's 2005 series should be given more time to work.

Nassau Comptroller Howard Weitzman, who along with Sen. Craig Johnson (D-Port Washington) opposed studying county management of fire services, said county control would disrupt the sense of community that makes the volunteer system work.

But Weitzman said he will ask the Long Island Regional Planning Board to study countywide dispatching. "There's a lot of solid research that went into those recommendations, and whether you agree with them or disagree they are clearly worthy of discussion," he said.

Copyright © 2008, Newsday Inc.

[bluewave7812]

FIRE TAX vs. SCHOOL TAX - what do we pay more for.......and yet Fire Tax is always in the news!!

Boring!!!

[uselesskomish]

Lets see, 6K for school taxes. No problem there. 300 bucks for fire protection - disaster. Uch.

[bluewave7812]

Originally Posted by uselesskomish

Lets see, 6K for school taxes. No problem there. 300 bucks for fire protection - disaster. Uch.

Man, I thought that u always lived in Woodmere, not at that school tax.

[21code2]

I love how Newsday tries to take credit for every little suggested change to the fire service anywhere. They really do just plain suck.

[5802]

This has potential for disaster...whats good for rural upstate counties may be of detriment to Nassau departments, where everything (population patterns, development, etc) is different. Although I understand the groundswell that has triggered this talk in Albany, and some of the measures are likely to be no-brainers (recruitment, etc), we may need to lean on our state reps to make sure that steps aren't taken which hurt Nassau Departments.

[Bruce]

Buffalo is paid what does that guy know about volunteers?

[1stdueindaView]

everyone always goes balls to the wall when they see something like this.. let it ride.. don't worry there will be another scandal in albany something with a high ranking so and so and then there will be campaign reform and all this nonsense..

we just need to stick together, the fire service as a whole, and let the lawmakers know we are here..

Newsday is just clawing at the bottom of the sandbox bc good ole Rupert is the big bad wolf knocking on their door step..

In addition this illustrious panel made up of 15 people.. already has 5 defectants that dont even want to touch the issue..

[Bruce]

I think we need to break out the leather pails, and wooden wheels and get ready to firefight because this is ultimately what teh people and Newsrag wat right?

[Battalion9]

Originally Posted by 1stdueindaView

everyone always goes balls to the wall when they see something like this.. let it ride.. don't worry there will be another scandal in albany something with a high ranking so and so and then there will be campaign reform and all this nonsense..

we just need to stick together, the fire service as a whole, and let the lawmakers know we are here..

Newsday is just clawing at the bottom of the sandbox bc good ole Rupert is the big bad wolf knocking on their door step..

In addition this illustrious panel made up of 15 people.. already has 5 defectants that dont even want to touch the issue..

Amen to that Brother!!

[bluewave7812]

Originally Posted by Bruce

I think we need to break out the leather pails, and wooden wheels and get ready to firefight because this is ultimately what teh people and Newsrag wat right?

Don't spare that whip when going 21!!

[PDDISP12]

I say screw them, there bitching about the FD's now, let it go paid and then see How they like it. The fire service on LI is a bargin now let them have to pay salaries. A paid system on LI would have to have a starting pay of atleast 45,000 for the 1st year.

[SPIN_THE_WHEEL]

This will effect other parts of NY state more then here on Long Island. The big issue on LI was the spending of money, dont forgt there are many more rules and regulations fire districts have to follow then were in place prior to the 2005 articles. In many upstate Counties in NY State the fire protection is made up of single station Dept.s or Fire Companies. There are many more of these one station companies running only 300 fire calls a year. It may be in the Town or Counties best interest to combine them all into one Dept., but that is not really the case here on LI. Are there some depts that should merge with other larger ones, of course, but as I said before, is that really a bad thing? If I were in a dept that did 80 calls a year i would want to merge into one that did 1400, or 2000. But I dont even think that will happen. Do you really think Kate Murray will push to create a Town of Hempstead fire dept.? No way. The politicians know how the fire service is run and for the most part it does not need to be changed in any drastic way that would effect the average back step firefighter or officer. Long Island's biggest offense was the "extras"spent by mostly Fire Districts and as I said there are many new rules to police this spending, I could care less about trips or dinners, dont get me wrong I take great pride in putting on my Class A uniform but if it means only 1 parade a year and having the annual installation dinner at the firehouse, so be it.

[OFDCHIEF24109]

More reason to get every member of our departments out to vote in every election. Including school budgets, local races (mayors, town boards). Send a message. Maybe it is time for us to run someone from the Volunteer fire service for a higher political office. Between our membership and family members we might just be able to pull something off. Let the NUMBERS speak for themselves !!

[bluewave7812]

Originally Posted by OFDCHIEF24109

More reason to get every member of our departments out to vote in every election. Including school budgets, local races (mayors, town boards). Send a message. Maybe it is time for us to run someone from the Volunteer fire service for a higher political office. Between our membership and family members we might just be able to pull something off. Let the NUMBERS speak for themselves !!

2nd that

[LAD62DER]

Tellm for county exec

[NassauRanter]

Do you realize how bad it makes the volunteers look when they oppose every and any effort made to improve the services provided to taxpayers? Seriously, people! If we really thought that we provided excellent service, we would have nothing to worry about. But once we start bashing something as innocuous as this, it makes the public wonder about our true motivations. They will think, "are these guys looking to protect us or do they care more about having a good time?" As I've said many times before, our failure to embrace beneficial changes will lead to the demise of the volunteer fire service.

[greggreg259]

Im all for the volunteers to keep up the awesome work that they do. But its not a black and white issue between the current system, and a 100% career firedepartment paying 45,000 a year.

[Rant Boss]

Originally Posted by NassauRanter

Do you realize how bad it makes the volunteers look when they oppose every and any effort made to improve the services provided to taxpayers?

When changes to the present system are proposed, I'd say I consider them from my standpoint as a taxpayer far more than from my standpoint as a volunteer firefighter. If L.I. went paid tomorrow, I'd find plenty of things to do with my newly found spare time -- most probably holding open houses for potential buyers for my home, which I'd probably end up putting on the market so I could move my family to a state that doesn't rape my wallet the way Nassau County does (and the way they would do even more if the fire service went paid).

Anyone who thinks the County would suddenly become fiscally or operationally competent at managing a huge entity such as a county-wide fire service is fooling themselves. They've proven themselves incompetent at handling YOUR money at every level.

[5802]

Originally Posted by NassauRanter

Do you realize how bad it makes the volunteers look when they oppose every and any effort made to improve the services provided to taxpayers? Seriously, people! If we really thought that we provided excellent service, we would have nothing to worry about. But once we start bashing something as innocuous as this, it makes the public wonder about our true motivations. They will think, "are these guys looking to protect us or do they care more about having a good time?" As I've said many times before, our failure to embrace beneficial changes will lead to the demise of the volunteer fire service.

Ranter: I am in complete agreement with you in that we shouldn't bash all of these ideas, because in truth, many of them may be helpful (recruitment, etc). And the public perception that the members of the fire service is bashing the possibility of measures that will result in improvement in the delivery of services will undoubtedly hurt in terms of public opinion. But any proposed legislation/solutions solutions must be considered for the area that they are may be implemented in (dispatch procedures, etc) - what is good for rural upstate may be a radical failure in more densely populated suburban areas.

Whatever discussions that occur in Albany must also consider that firefighting is not purely a business (although there is a price tag), and it is not a political football, but rather an essential service provided to the public. Although there are likely to be instances of isolated spending abuse (like some of you have said, the reason most of us are here is to go on calls, and not a conference), hopefully the legislators will primarily focus on the important performance standards (i.e., time for the engine or ambulance to arrive on scene) -- hopefully these standards will be the drivers for the legislation that emanates from this state panel -- and not the politics or press, which is often misrepresentative.

[xengineboss]

somebody should smack elizabeth moore in the face since she is the one doing this report again for that paper we call newsrag with all the other stuff going on in this world the state has nothing better to do than to knock the volunteer fire service on long island.. we must all stick together in this ....

[9101]

I think everyone’s putting the cart before the horse. Not all change is bad and if it going to provide a better service to the people we serve then it’s at least worth listening to. Most Fire Dept’s bashed all the OSHA regulations put on the fire service back in the ’80, but look how far the service has come from it, although it is the reason all district budgets are 50x what they were back then. No one should fear having someone watch the store, especially if you’re doing nothing wrong. The fire service is no longer the good old boys club it once was. It’s a business that deals with lives and requires big money, lots of time and training from its unpaid professional staff. Let uss see what comes from it before we do all the bashing.

[WFD*SOC]

Liz moore has nothing better to report on........she must believe her research into the Long Island fire service is her meal ticket to bigger and better things.... Get A Life Liz .( I Know you probably visit this site daily.) Make an Honest Living like everyone else.

[MasonDixon]

This has nothing to do with what's right or wrong. On Long Island the wind fall of Newsdays article will effect us. As spin stated Upstate in the rural areas this is help they probably need ( there is quite a few departments that scratch calls because they can't get out .) I also agree with the boss, I'll be using my spare time to find a new home out of New York. JMO

[LADDER 3]

Originally Posted by PDDISP12

I say screw them, there bitching about the FD's now, let it go paid and then see How they like it. The fire service on LI is a bargin now let them have to pay salaries. A paid system on LI would have to have a starting pay of atleast 45,000 for the 1st year.

Yep, then the taxes would double and some towns will be without firehouses which will lead to a longer response time.