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as a side note - you dont need to place step chalks under the car if you pull the valves cause you'll have a real problem getting them out later.
and for the person who enters the car if it'll require the tool, have them pull the emergency brake if its reachable through the center console...especially if its a stick shift. that and make sure the cars off
Pulling the valves will cause the vehicle to rest on the rims. The vehicle will still move up and down and also possibly roll because the suspension system has not been isolated and vehicles with flats still roll . Putting a step CHOCK or cribbing under the vehicles frame then letting the air out of the tires will place all of the vehicles weight on the stepchock taking the vehicles suspension out of the picture. If done properly the metal rims will not touch the ground, the car will be supported at each tire by a step chock.
Never worry about the loss of a step chock/cribbing. Rescuer safety comes first. I can make or buy new ones, I can't buy or make a guy a new leg or life for that matter. They can be recovered afterwards in many ways. In my Department and old job we carried a simple floor jack on the truck, it has quite a few uses and this was one of them.
I do agree with the make sure the car is off advice and somewhat agree about the Parking Brake put it on .... but, why take the chance on trusting a braking system that may be damaged from the crash or maybe the cause of it. Chock the wheels, make it a SOP at all Crashes, even the BS neck and back ones.
Just heard this tip. Have a squirt bottle of class B foam. Spray around the windshield before using the saw or glass tool. It should keep down the flying glass dust.
We just got a set of rescue jacks (not sure if that's the real term). Basically extentable poles. You use one on each side of the vehicle, then use ratchet straps on the bottom between them. The ratcheting pulls the bottoms closer and raises the top. You can actually start to raise the car up. They are great for cars that are upside down or on their side. You can completely stabilize the vehicle in a couple of minutes.
Problem with pulling the valves, especially if you didint place step chocks is if you need to lift dash via spreaders which is the fastest and most practical way to do it, you can't get step chocks in place and the tips of the spreaders will then drive the rocker panel down to the street as oppsed to lifting the dash...the step chock directs that force upward
Problem with pulling the valves, especially if you didint place step chocks is if you need to lift dash via spreaders which is the fastest and most practical way to do it, you can't get step chocks in place and the tips of the spreaders will then drive the rocker panel down to the street as oppsed to lifting the dash...the step chock directs that force upward
this is also dependent on what type of pin your going to and the easiest and fastest way to chock a car will be using step chocks and leaving the tires alone if possible. i mean if your dealing with an SUV then your usually gonna have to pull the valves. but then again it all depends on the car and type of pin.
as for the last part i've seen people pull the valves let the car hit the rims and the car no longer has the rocking motion from the shocks/springs. and as for keeping the car from moving forward or back one chock on the front left and one on the back right...but thats dependent on your resources and the way you approach the size up.
I do agree with the make sure the car is off advice and somewhat agree about the Parking Brake put it on .... but, why take the chance on trusting a braking system that may be damaged from the crash or maybe the cause of it. Chock the wheels, make it a SOP at all Crashes, even the BS neck and back ones.
i totally agree with you to chock the wheels always it was more or less a suggestion for the first person on scene if they don't have chocks in their car or once the step chocks and tire chocks are in place its just one more easy thing as a fail safe **in case** something goes wrong with the chocks
Well, unless you have a "tool" in your car, you shouldn't be worrying about stabilizing the car before treating the patient, unless its on its roof or side. The purpose of stabilizing is to keep the vehicle from moving around while you are working with extrication tools.
1-when taking windows (if they arent broken already) tape it up then break it with a spring loaded popper, it makes life a lot eaiser.
2- make sure you have a backup man..and dont get in between the tool and the car..
3-STOP YELLING!
Before you take the window with that spring loaded "popper" also known as a spring loaded center punch, try getting the window as far down into toe door as you can, if the battery isn't cut yet and you can try the electric button, roll it down, leave about an inch exposed, then break the window. All the little pieces now fall inside of the door.
A back-up man is great........if you have the capabilities back up the tool as well. At work we don't take a disregard until the patient is removed from the car. Nothing worse than have your equipment fail and you just turned the help around. You will never see or hear me sending the FD away, and If you arrive while we're at work on a car I'll usually ask for you to bring your equipment over and be ready to help.
Next time you have extrication training, sit in the car. Be the victim. Close your eyes and listen to what's going on around you for a few seconds. Watch what happens on the inside of the car when the tools are bending and cutting. Now you have half an idea what the aided feels like.
If your patient is conscious while you're working on a door, talk to him or her. Explain to them what you're doing, be simple. Tell them it will be noisy, tell them you're there to help. If they have a sheet over the aided imagine how they feel. (what do they cover dead bodies with at an incident ? Now this person knows they have a sheet over them, do they think they died?) Talking to the patient reassures them and it can help you from getting tunnel vision.
Prior to disconnecting the battery use the power to your advantage for windows as ESU said. You can also move the patient away from the steering wheel using the power seat button.
At T-Bone incidents, before you get deep into using the tool on the impact side consider patient removal from the other side.
Toughest of all to do is have ONE person supervising the extrication tool in use and making decisions. Too many cooks in the kitchen will usually make things more complicated.
Always be aware that air bag systems hold a charge, sometimes a few seconds and others for a few minutes. They can give you some headache if you get whacked.
I use the term "Vertical Crush" when taking a door. Many FF's go right for the door at the B post. Consider placing the tool on the sill of the window and opening the tool vertically. This will / may get your door open. If it does not get it completely open, it can do a great service to the patient and the medic by getting the door off them so assesment can be made.
In 91' had a nasty T-bone (passenger side) and the girl had the door on top of her. She had Lt. leg compound Tib Fib Fx. Her right leg had Femur Fx and the door was hiding this and more important to her was that the way her legs were compressed it stoped blood flow which more than likely would have killed her by bleeding out. She also had major upper torso and head trauma. By taking the extrication in steps we were able to get her out and she survived. She lost her spleen and was home within two weeks (with allot of new steel in her legs. We were so caught in the tunnel vision during this pin that nobody heard or noticed the NCPD bird that landed 50 yards behind us.
Pins can be nasty and when we get "That One" we need to also be aware of our emotional response later. My first run ever was a car vs. pole a long time ago and it was pretty gruesome. Had dreams about it for days. Only found out a few years ago that this is normal. When you go to one of these and it is only a matter of time before you do, be aware that you may get a little wigged out and not sleep too well that night.
All of this is normal. I thought I was not beign "tough enough". Beyond anything we DO as firefighters, we are also human and the response is normal.
Prior to disconnecting the battery use the power to your advantage for windows as ESU said. You can also move the patient away from the steering wheel using the power seat button.
At T-Bone incidents, before you get deep into using the tool on the impact side consider patient removal from the other side.
Toughest of all to do is have ONE person supervising the extrication tool in use and making decisions. Too many cooks in the kitchen will usually make things more complicated.
Always be aware that air bag systems hold a charge, sometimes a few seconds and others for a few minutes. They can give you some headache if you get whacked.
I use the term "Vertical Crush" when taking a door. Many FF's go right for the door at the B post. Consider placing the tool on the sill of the window and opening the tool vertically. This will / may get your door open. If it does not get it completely open, it can do a great service to the patient and the medic by getting the door off them so assesment can be made.
Stay Safe.
LOL!!! I've been doing/teaching the same for years..... are you my long lost brother ????
1 - when taking a window, you can frame the window out with good duct tape, make an X across the window w/the tape, then a quick handle made of the same tape. when you punch it out you'll be able to remove the glass all at once and minimize the mess.
2 - when you go to stabilize a vehicle and you have dropped your cribbing into place...avoid pulling out the tire stems. all you need to do is have a small screwdriver in one of your pockets (flathead works well) and place it into the base of the tire stem. you maintain more control this way.
2 - when you go to stabilize a vehicle and you have dropped your cribbing into place...avoid pulling out the tire stems. all you need to do is have a small screwdriver in one of your pockets (flathead works well) and place it into the base of the tire stem. you maintain more control this way.[/quote]
too time consuming...
on the other hand...if you find those valve caps that have the valve core remover on them, take a 1/4 20 x 1 1/2 bolt, scew the cap on to the bolt. now, you can use it to remove the cores. still a little time consuming, but if the car isn't 'that' bad, you can replace them for the tow operator so they may be able to re-inflate the tires.
I agree, the screwdriver is very time consuming. I personally am a big fan of pulling the valve stems on everything but a simple door pop (and of course, if it isn't on all fours). It gives you complete control of your vehicle, and if done correctly, you shouldn't have a big problem doing a dashlift with the spreaders, you just have to always remember to lift the car up (gently both up and down, don't rock the car) and get the stepchock in as far as possible.
Also, if your breaking a window with a halligan, don't just throw the halligan through the window, if it bounces back you'll look and feel like an idiot. Take the spike on your adz end and put it in the bottom right corner, then take a 6-8 swing fairly hard and the glass will shatter the same as a center punch.
Lastly, what kind of Struts and tools do your department's have. I have worked with Holmatro, Hurst and Amkus, I liked the Amkus the most, but I also used it the most. What are your opinions?
Tips and tricks for pin jobs
