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Best regards, Rant Boss.
We're discussing Truck Co Ladder Throwing Expectations
I have to disagree with throwing a 35' alone, That ladder is not a light tool. What about the injury factor? What if someones tries to put it up and hurts themselves while there are 5-10 members on the front lawn or blocking the stairwell. What happens if the ff losses his/her grip? Do you think they will be able to catch it and just throw it to the window/roof? Just have atleast 3 ff's "throwing it"
Its training and technique not strngth.
-You cant throw the 35 by yourself and someone gets jammed up on an upper floor? You are takin up a seat on the rig that could have been filled with a fireman.
Its training and technique not strngth.
-You cant throw the 35 by yourself and someone gets jammed up on an upper floor? You are takin up a seat on the rig that could have been filled with a fireman.
And if you get hurt or hurt someone else, then what good are you to the service? Like it was said on a previous page, there are more than enough people at a job to help you throw it up. Why take the chance? What if the ladder slips on sand or loose dirt? Catches a tree branch and comes back down, it's not coming down as slow as you are putting it up. Hey, you guys do what your dept tells or teaches you to do, and ill do it our way
I think some people are missing the point here, this isnt a ladder that you are going to be throwing by yourself for the hell of it at every fire. Is it heavy and difficult to handle? YES...But if someone is trapped and your their only hope you have to be able to get the job done.
1st due truck-Positions on Side "A"Driver is responsible for throwing ladders to Sides "A" and "B". OVM usually grabs a ladder and throws it to where the fire is and goes in (VES). The drive is also responsible for Utilities.
2nd Due Truck-Positions on Side "C" Driver Ladders sides "C" and "D"
The Aggressive Truck Co's will empty their entire Ladder bed on their assigned sides.
We also dont go to the roof on a PD unless its an attick fire with limited access. To me personally, it doesnt make sense to. Its uneccessary danger. You have other ways to vent a PD ie. GABLE VENTS.
Fairfax County does the same. The 1st due trk goes to side A while the 2nd due goes to side C. If the 2nd due trk can't gain access with the rig then they have to carry the ladders. We have been known to driver through peoples property to get to our assignment. Our trks are staffed with three people. the driver is responsible for putting up all the ladders if needed and YES the 35' too.
I think it would probably have to go in to drilling/training section, but does anyone have a video that can be posted to show the right way to throw a ladder for probies/engine/rescue/ guys or any fireman as a general refresher for those that haven't done it since fireschool last year? This is a great forum to learn about what is being said in the posts by showing how it is done also.
Every time I've thrown a 35' ladder, someone has been there to help me. Mostly its the chauff. Why? Why not. I'm gonna kill myself and then climb the stupid thing and THEN do a search? Save your energy for when you really need it, not pounding your chest while 20 guys stand around and watch you. SHOULD you be able to do it alone? Yes. Definitely. Should you do it alone when others are there to help? Not at all. Remember, a good truckie has a lot to do before getting in there, and after too. Your job does not end at the window you went in.
Someone said it before..Work smart not hard. If there is a porch roof between 1st and 2nd floor, use a 16' and pull it up and use it again. Guaranteed you'll still get to where you're going and have a lot more energy to accomplish your task.
Here's a good tip: You pull up on a flat roof 2 story PD, corner address. Wires on the 1 side, wires on the 2 side. Its either the 35', or the 16' piggy backed off something. As the OVM, you can use the 24' to the rear setback. As the roofman, if you don't hear any report from the ovm, call him and ask him "is there a rear setback on the building". OV's should let your roofman know there is a setback, and he will piggyback off of it, and get to the roof. Homerun. Or, look for a porch from the 1st floor occupancy, either in the rear or side, and that can get you to the roof via 24' ladder.. if its available.
Last edited by 27indabeach : 01-19-2008 at 03:18 PM.
Its training and technique not strngth.
-You cant throw the 35 by yourself and someone gets jammed up on an upper floor? You are takin up a seat on the rig that could have been filled with a fireman.
Thats the problem with alot of these guys, theyre not firemen. They just like riding around on rigs, getting free-os, and telling everyone theyre firemen. 3 guys throwing 1 ladder. Your lucky if you get one civilian to help you out. Everyone has a job to do and its not to help you throw a ladder. If it was a safe and easy job everyone would do it.
i agree with suffolk2nassau, if everyone starts helping each other our and stop doing what their assignments are then the position system is out the window. if you cant throw a 35 by yourself then have maybe 1 other person help you out or grab a different ladder and have someone that can throw it themselves do the job, don't take away from the chauffeurs time to set the rig up and whatever else they have to do...just my 2 cents
this is the VOLUNTEER fire service you will never have a set amout of people on a rig or at a scene, you will be most of the time be working with limited rersources at first, i will never expect a 35' ladder to be thrown by 1 person, at least 2 men on it, we do not train for 2-3 hours a day and sit at the fh gym the rest of the time, you do what you can with the people you have. if you need more mutual aid call it. next you people will be saying 3 guys can stretch a 2 1/2 line by themselves.
Who cares if this is the vollies or paid. A job has to be done, period. Suck it up and throw the ladder. If you start to lose it let it fall to the ground than pick it up and throw it again. And 3 men can stretch a 2 1/2" line. Especially if its a short stretch ( 4 or less ).
At work, to complete recruit school a firefighter must stretch 2 1/2 to the 6th floor of the tower working in the maximum of a three person team. And 1 3/4 to the 6th floor with a two person team. A good deal of my class completed the 2 1/2 evolution with two. It took a couple of hose straps and ALOT of balls to the walls work to do it, but it had to be done. And yes.... the line was charged. Everyone had to raise and extend a 35 alone, some weaker recruits dragged the ladder into position but still had to throw it alone. In the BCFD all ladders above 24 ft are truss as well. We also had some pretty petite girls. Im not making this a paied or volly thing. Im just saying it can be done and not just by superheros. If you set the expectations high your going to get a higher standard. Theres no need to perform these evolutions with such limited manpower as a standard, but its pretty comforting to know that if im trapped on the third floor that every person I graduated with could get me out.
Who cares if this is the vollies or paid. A job has to be done, period. Suck it up and throw the ladder. If you start to lose it let it fall to the ground than pick it up and throw it again. And 3 men can stretch a 2 1/2" line. Especially if its a short stretch ( 4 or less ).
3 men can stretch a 2 1/2 line? whos hitting the hydrant? whose putting the rig into pump who is counting how many lengths are needed and where its going? its not about sucking it up, its about safety. if you think your members cant do it then the officers or training committee should be doing more than 1, 60 minute session on throwing ladders every 4-5 months. and by the way when the rigs rolls with driver. officer and 2 guys in back who is throwing the ladders? alot comes into play on each run you go on, manpower, experience etc... unless you rolling out with 3-4 guys with 5 years or more of "ACTIVE" experience on the back your rolling out with a jr crew or a "lite" crew im sorry.
When you say 3 guys STRETCHING, Im usually thinking 3 guys on the stretch, In which case the chauffer can hopefully hit a close hydrant and hook up by himself and the officer can act as the back up man. But even including the chauffer in the 3 men I still think 2 men can get a 2 1/2" in place bythemselves on a short stretch. But if were goin to continue this discussion we should start a new thread. As far as rolling out with 3 or 4 members on a truck, I would hope it doesnt take 4 years of active service for any member to learn how to do all the positions and throw a ladder. With 4 members the officer is going to act as the irons, you have a can man, a roofman, and the chauffer will act as the ov and throw a ladder as he VES's. And if its a peeked roof now your roofman can also throw a ladder as he VES's. With 3 memebers if its a peeked roof the chauffer can still act as the ov and throw a ladder.
Truck Co Ladder Throwing Expectations
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