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Just because they appear vacant and may be boarded up dont assume they are not occupied. Of the 6-7 fires in vacants in Hempstead there were vagrants in all but 1 or 2 including a burn victim that jumped out a 2nd floor window.
And a house under construction isn't always vacant. When I closed on my house I lived there while I was working rather than driving back & forth between my then current apartment and my new house.
Just because they appear vacant and may be boarded up dont assume they are not occupied. Of the 6-7 fires in vacants in Hempstead there were vagrants in all but 1 or 2 including a burn victim that jumped out a 2nd floor window.
100% dead on. Melted, it’s your sixth sense & intuition that you’ve gleaned from years of experience making the hard push over and over again that enables you to make solid decisions as to when it’s a go and not a go. One of the most capable & tenacious brothers I’ve ever had the privilege of working along side. Now go get your Easter Egg - Baby Finster.
We’re Fireman not judge or jury. It’s our job to do our job regardless of the economic or social standing of the civilian (squatters/vagrants) occupants—potential victims. We need to fully utilize our experience and training in order to properly judge and understand what type of conditions dictate when we can and cannot make the hard push into the vacant. Getting BI’s done including marking and taking notes helps the cause quite a bit.
We have a few vacant structures in our district. SOP is that unless there is a report of a victim inside, we don't go in. The structures are run down, confusing, and very dangerous.
I am all for going in and doing a good aggressive search, but remember that the life hazard is us the firefighters.
You dont want to get too carried away and wind up above the fire without water or opposite the hoseline, or with no secondary means of egress aka ladders.
And most importantly You want to know who is on the hoseline before you go commtting yourself to the floor above and make sure they are on the same page as you..
If the building is in that bad of shape then we should be moving in with the hoseline and searching off the hoseline. This should be a slow and steady process being the only real life hazard is us.
Vacant unoccupied and Vacant Derelict are 2 diff. types of vacant. The unoccupied house in Garden City prob. not the same type of foreclosed run down Vacant in Hempstead or Roosevelt - Don't mean to offend anyone!
That is why I said "IF" there are no life hazards. Lot of the vacant buildings are run down. If it is confirmed that the building is vacant, why are we still going to go in ??
And for that vacant structure that you are taliking about someone should have done an inspection and marked it so everyone knows the conditions inside and not to enter. There needs to be better decision making than there are boards on the windows and smoke coming out---put up the tower ladder.
And for that vacant structure that you are taliking about someone should have done an inspection and marked it so everyone knows the conditions inside and not to enter. There needs to be better decision making than there are boards on the windows and smoke coming out---put up the tower ladder.
How do we know if there are life hazards if no search is conducted?
In many cases it could be quite obvious to the public eye whether or not a building is vacant, and a chief may "confirm" a vacant structure upon his "22"
But who says that doesn't mean there are no squatters living in the basement in the "vacant"?
Which means at the time the house could very well be occupied.
This has got to be a judgement call for the OIC. We have quite a few vacants, commercial and residential in my district. After we get done training in them most don't even have floor anymore and our members are aware of the that.
I would never consider sending my members into a vacant "STRUCTURE FIRE" because there may be a squatter inside. Risk Vs Benefit. If you know the structure and its condition, if you know your crew, if you read the smoke, and you use common sense it should not be a hard decision. Never put you or your crews at risk for squatters or the legal resident for that matter.
We have a complex which is jointly shared between 2 fire districts which is now vacant. Its important to not only pass along info and SOP's to your members, be sure to include the neighboring depts as well. Even depts that will be coming in on your signal 10 or working fire response. If you have a dept who acts as you FAST, keep them up to date as well.
The key point in a previous post is "IF YOU KNOW THE STUCTURE AND IT'S CONDITION". If there is a structure in your distric that has been vacant/ abandoned for a long period of time then someone in your department should have done an inspection of this building. Then it should be marked( in a noticable place), pre-planned and Chiefs and member's should be notified of it's condition's. If any condition's exist (I.E. no floors, cracked exterior walls) that would place us in immenent danger then we should not enter this structure. For any reason.
On the other hand, just because a structure is vacant that does not mean we should let someone die in it because of their social status, or a push can't be made. If condition's exist (1-2 rooms, contents) where a safe (slow and delibrate) advance can be made why wouldn't we attemp it. Many of these house's may be vacant today, but may be occupied in a month or two. At which time everyone would be more than willing to make an aggressive push.
Nobody has mentioned booby traps. Back in the day skells would cut holes in the floor and cover them with carpet or linoleum. They would prime a building with diesel fuel and light a gasoline fed fire . The gas burned faster and AFTER the brothers went in the diesel would get going( Burns hotter) putting them in jeopardy. I've been to fires where they put pots of gasoline in the cieling so that when you pulled the ceiling the gas would hit embers and ignite. A brother was killed like this 40 yrs ago in a Brooklyn ghetto. Vacant buildings dictate some alterations to our agressive interior attack strategy. The size up should be especially thorough before we commit troops to the inside. We didn't put the skell there, a vacant shouldn't just spontaneously combust. If the power is off an the house wasn't hit by lightening HOW did the fire start. Someone wants to burn the place down so let it ####ing burn to the ground. Rule one brothers "Everone Goes Home". And that doesn't mean after a visit to the hospital.
Vacant Structures
