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Have the second due engine hit a hydrant and lay in and feed the first due engine which should have at least 1 line in opperation with tank water by this time . Have the second due engine guys (2or 3 ) start the primary search and have the rest of the crew start throwing some ground ladders the rest is pretty much given wet stuff on the red stuff
so much talk about a big picture...but im noticing no one read the sceanario....... the engine company get water on the fire thats what they do.... there are two engine crews on scean and your telling me that a search is more important then getting a line in place.....for an engine company which is easy to tell who is and who isnt, its our job to get the first line going not worry about the dog or the REPORTED people trapped...the engine gets a water source the 1st line is charged then you take it from there...then you attempt a rescue beacause like the sceanrio is everyone on scene at this point is from an engine.....after the line is charged and you have water then The remaining engine company guys will do a quick search....but hopefully by that time the truck would have arrived but hey we all no this aint a perfect world.....dont shame me for being more concerned about my guys then a civ. like i said before id lose more sleep over a brother dieing because we lost water or something developed before the line began its strech.....im sorry you guys want to be heros and save everyone but guess what you cant sometimes and thats a bad part of this job but the worst is losing a brother because no one sized up correctly or waited a second to say hey bro hold up wait for water.....my men come before me and society and it will never change....i am not a hero im just a fireman who is there to help and do his best you who sit there and critizies have obviously never been an OIC at a fire and i hope you can all sense up before your first job in the seat.... you want to discuss tactics make a new thread other wise read form the top and answer accordingly, its kind of scary some people cant even size up a thread.....
Exactly res347cue, all that has been discussed way back. It just bothers me, a little, when guys don't know whats going on around them at fires. Being the Training Officer in any Dept., One should know better to teach his guys. They will be the guy in the front seat shortly, making those decions. It's obvious to me that life is certainly the most important thing in our job description and obsolutely our own before anyone else. But a known life hazard requires at the very least an attempt before we just write the fire off. There will certainly be times when its a no brainer it's to late, but we need to understand the differences here. We are the only Professionals coming and our Neighbors are counting on us.
NY how do you know for sure osmeone is indeed traped?? there are more then enough calls everywhere , when someone reports someone is traped and there never was, i assume some is trapped at every fire reguardless of the additional,but your job has to be done before you move on to someone elses job.....
BigSmoke - we were typing at the same time! I am not directing all that I write at you personally. My opinion comes from things I have seen over time as well. I can understand what you are saying about your guys and I am not saying its OK to sacrifice a Guy either. I am basing what I write on the picture and the original thread. Some have added to the scenario and thats great to see the responses and ideas.
I didn't add in there that someone was trapped. Someone else threw that out there and I was going by that post. If I remember correctly they wrote a confirmed person trapped!
my priorty was stated multiple times in this thread no use to say it again to be honest its stupid to argue this you have your views and i dont agree and i have mine....
I dont understand why some people come on here and talk about implementing tactics that they dont understand, arent qualified to or have the courage to carry out. a deck gun first due at a house with out doing a primary, what school is that from?. since when do we only search when a line is streached? ventilation is the job of second due truck, wow thats news to all american firefighters. I could go on all day about many of the incorrect statements made here but thats not the point. if you not qualified dont pretend you are and make false statments and defend them with the old saftey crap. you should try to learn the proper way to fight a fire and use those tactics to save a life and to bring everyone home safe. just cause you may have a big 5 years or so in the service and been to 2 or 3 fires dosent mean your ready to start writing the book. there is noting wrong with having ideas but you should reserve comment on the topics you yet fully understand. "know your roll" "do work son"
I dont understand why some people come on here and talk about implementing tactics that they dont understand, arent qualified to or have the courage to carry out. a deck gun first due at a house with out doing a primary, what school is that from?. since when do we only search when a line is streached? ventilation is the job of second due truck, wow thats news to all american firefighters. I could go on all day about many of the incorrect statements made here but thats not the point. if you not qualified dont pretend you are and make false statments and defend them with the old saftey crap. you should try to learn the proper way to fight a fire and use those tactics to save a life and to bring everyone home safe. just cause you may have a big 5 years or so in the service and been to 2 or 3 fires dosent mean your ready to start writing the book. there is noting wrong with having ideas but you should reserve comment on the topics you yet fully understand. "know your roll" "do work son"
the reason i said shoot the deck gun is because if you look it is a garage on fire with extension to the house. now i personally did not go and inspect his garage before it went on fire. so i dont know if he is storing any propane or any other explosive materials. so i dont think throwing a guy in there immediaetly would be such a good idea. im sure you could but if when he got to that gargae door and a propane cylinder or any other material he might be storing blows up and kills your guy im sure you would feel like a certified @$$hole. also i said possible victums traped because if you read the original scenerio it is 6 pm on a rainy day with cars in the driveway. also my safety comes before the victims traped. so once a hand line is in place and ready to go then i will go in. lets just face it every department is different and we can sit here and argue all day. and who ever said when you shoot the deck gun then you definately killed them, did you have to look at the picture? if anyone is traped in the garage where the extensive fire is they are already dead. no need to cook them more. just my opinion. no need to get all pissy about it
I think everyone needs to relax a little bit. The point of this whole website is to discuss different tactics and techniques. To make ourselves better at what we do and to learn. No one is writing a book here and yes not everyone on here is an ex-chief. Weather they weren't getting the info from the guys at there stations or their subscription to firehouse or fire engineering or whatever lapsed and they didn't get the info, but people are coming on here and stating what they learned in an attempt to get feed back. Lets not kill the messenger. Who cares where this thread is going if someone can learn one little thing then its worth it. I'm guilty of it as well, lets try not to jump down someones throat about something. But yes there gonna be some silly things said, just go with it. Someone said VES, its only a one story house, why not just do a search (VES means going through each room via a window leaving through that same window and entering the adjacent room through a window again) That looks like a pretty long house a search can be started from side d and work toward the fire on side b without being even close to the garage or whatever room is off. I don't personally agree with the deck gun at all. A well placed hand line on the interior of the structure would do just fine. And I don't know who said 2nd due truck should do ventilation but thats just too late at that point.
There will always be two schools of thought on truck company operations before the placement of the initial hand line. Some departments in other parts of the country don't even go interior anymore (thank god I'm not near any of that) Lets just try to be more proactive and keep the spirit of this forum.
my point was not just this senerio. you are not doing a search of the garage or any room that is fully involved without knocking it down first. I was talking about the remainder of the house or building i think that should go without saying. there is more to think about when use master streams or deckguns then just firefighters or victums inside the structure, you can also push the fire through a building and effect parts that would have been saved if you had the stones to bring one line from the 3 to 4 thousand feet of hose on you engine inside and knock it down. you also add a tremendous amount of weight to a building by using these things and structual members will feel the added strain. this was not an attack on you just some of the things that were said in the entire thread. firefighting is very dangerous and far to many of us are lost every year. you have to look at each situation and do risk reward but dont just make blanket statments about tactics becase they change at every fire and often during a fire. I dont know were your from but i hope that Iam never trapped in a fire and got to wait for you and 3 maybee 4 other guys to get a search team and a line in place before you come help me because chances are my family and freinds will be buying flowers and listening to the pipes.
The main purpose of these forums particually these "What would you do" threads are to get you thinking. It's great to discuss about different strategies and tactics that you can use to get the job done. These situations could potentially happen to you. You might be the one making the decisions and calling the shots.
It's always good to hear different point of views on the situation at hand. Theres always more than one way to do something effectivly so naturally there are going to be others that think something completely different than you but in the end accomplish the same task. So please respect each others opinions, strategies and tactics.
since when do we only search when a line is streached?
you are not doing a search of the garage or any room that is fully involved without knocking it down first.
is more to think about when use master streams or deckguns then just firefighters or victums inside the structure, you can also push the fire through a building and effect parts that would have been saved if you had the stones to bring one line from the 3 to 4 thousand feet of hose on you engine inside and knock it down.
hey red you contridicted your self a few time there buddy whats your final answer.......you also said something about peole on hear haveing 5 big year in a depatment and knowing how to write the book already ( there is no book cause conditions change everyday) but the first thing you should know is practice what you preach... i dont know who you are but before you comment on this section of the rant you should have some kind of fireground expirence...my department runs well over 10 workers a year hell i think we have the most all time in a year....dont open your mouth you sound smater that way.... greggreg makes the same point as i, read the ####ing sceanrio this is based on the sceanario given not tactics in a warehouse or a mansion...its based on the 1st post in this thread.....read before you write, but i would like to know how you would handle this situation?
wow a big ten workers thats great Iam sure you must be one of the best then. A men or women with your experience should know what I am talking about. The point is the forum is a good thing for people to talk about different straterges, but when people who dont have experience make the wrong call dont try to defend there bad decisions with a bunch of crap. anybody could make a bad call, but when its pointed out dont go into its a me or them speach.
I'll just ask you this was there a door in that garage that lead into the rest of the house? Is it open? was the home owner laying in that doorway burning becase he failed in his attempt to put out the fire? is there people sleeping in a bedroom? Who knows but these questions need to be answered before we open a deckgun on it.
I dont claim to know it all but I have plenty of fire ground experience both as a firefighter and a officer to know that some of the choices that were made were wrong. When i or someone else brought them up they were countered with nothing but stupidity. somtimes instead of fighting you should listen maybee you will learn somthing.
Re: What Would You Do - #2
